Aust govt removes outbound travel ban exemption for overseas residents

[Flying mermaid]

Well Master FM is still going to come. So now I have 4 worry points.

1. Will he make it to Australia
2. Will he get to Melbourne for his visa interview
3. Will he be allowed to travel from Melbourne to Canberra
4. Will he be allowed to leave Australia

 

[Lynda2475]

Will he get to Melbourne for his visa interview

Is there a reason visa interview cant be done at US Consulate in Sydney (assuming he is flying into Sydney)?

 

[louie-m]

I must say I don’t have a devious enough mind. . Of course they might want to look at his ticket…..

What ticket? You only have to give your itinerary. In fact, you are told not to book until you have your exemption. After you have submitted your application for exemption (including details of your booked flights in most cases!).

 

[Flying mermaid]

Is there a reason visa interview cant be done at US Consulate in Sydney (assuming he is flying into Sydney)?

3 month waiting list in Sydney and 1 week in Melbourne. You can’t book your interview until you get your number from the approval. Then you have to wait 2 weeks to get your passport back and he wanted to be back in the USA by the 7th November. So it was very tight for Sydney and more flexibility for Melbourne. If something went wrong in quarantine easy to reschedule another interview. It all sounded quite sensible at the time, but a bit more problematic now. Should be OK as long as Melbourne continues to allow flights from Sydney.

Post automatically merged: Aug 6, 2021

What ticket? You only have to give your itinerary. In fact, you are told not to book until you have your exemption. After you have submitted your application for exemption (including details of your booked flights in most cases!).

You have to supply a Commonwealth of Australia stat dec with the application. Do you know if one is done outside of a Australia it would be accepted? I assume the USA has an equivalent of a JP.

 

[Lynda2475]

Do you know if one is done outside of a Australia it would be accepted? I assume the USA has an equivalent of a JP.

Doesnt look easy, according to

Who can witness your Commonwealth statutory declaration

To be valid, your statutory declaration must be signed by an approved witness. Find out who can witness your statutory declaration.

www.ag.gov.au

You can make a Commonwealth statutory declaration if you are overseas. But it must be witnessed by a:

• person on the approved witness list who has a connection to Australia
• notary public appointed overseas
• employee of the Australian Trade and Investment Commission who is:
  1. in a country or place outside Australia, and
  2. authorised under paragraph 3(d) of the Consular Fees Act 1955, and
  3. exercising his or her function in that place
• employee of the Commonwealth who is:
  1. in a country or place outside Australia, and
  2. authorised under paragraph 3(c) of the Consular Fees Act 1955, and
  3. exercising his or her function in that place

You may be able find an approved witness at an Australian Embassy, High Commission or Consulate. Visit the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade- external site or Smartraveller- external site for contact details.

Approved witnesses who are overseas are allowed to charge a fee for being a witness.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Doesnt look easy, according to

Who can witness your Commonwealth statutory declaration

To be valid, your statutory declaration must be signed by an approved witness. Find out who can witness your statutory declaration.

www.ag.gov.au

You can make a Commonwealth statutory declaration if you are overseas. But it must be witnessed by a:

• person on the approved witness list who has a connection to Australia
• notary public appointed overseas
• employee of the Australian Trade and Investment Commission who is:
  1. in a country or place outside Australia, and
  2. authorised under paragraph 3(d) of the Consular Fees Act 1955, and
  3. exercising his or her function in that place
• employee of the Commonwealth who is:
  1. in a country or place outside Australia, and
  2. authorised under paragraph 3(c) of the Consular Fees Act 1955, and
  3. exercising his or her function in that place

You may be able find an approved witness at an Australian Embassy, High Commission or Consulate. Visit the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade- external site or Smartraveller- external site for contact details.

Approved witnesses who are overseas are allowed to charge a fee for being a witness.

All sounds too hard. I am actually quite relaxed about him getting an exemption, so I think once he gets to Canberra, he can easily do a stat dec and put in an application.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Having not visited before you think would make the exemption much easier.

Reading the comments in The Age it’s to stop everyone coming back to Australia for holidays all the time. Who in their right mind would come back to Australia for a holiday? It’s the last place on earth, even coming from fortress Singapore, that I’d try to come to just for a holiday. Lot cheaper, a lot less stress ( as fully vaccinated) to just go to Greece, the Maldives or the US or Mexico than try to visit the DPR of Australia for a holiday, where there’s always a high chance of being locked down anyway.

There's discussion in a couple of places about this on AFF - but my response to the 'holiday' issue in another thread is that it perhaps depends on an individual's definition of 'holiday'.

Coming home for a friend's wedding, 50th birthday, or visiting mum and dad (who are healthy) might be considered 'holiday' in the broader sense.

Coming home to see a sick or dying relative might come under the compassionate and 'compelling' grounds.

If we can't leave here to do any of the 'holiday' things, is it not fair that you also can't come to Australia for any of the same reasons?

 

[Pushka]

There's discussion in a couple of places about this on AFF - but my response to the 'holiday' issue in another thread is that it perhaps depends on an individual's definition of 'holiday'.

Coming home for a friend's wedding, 50th birthday, or visiting mum and dad (who are healthy) might be considered 'holiday' in the broader sense.

Coming home to see a sick or dying relative might come under the compassionate and 'compelling' grounds.

If we can't leave here to do any of the 'holiday' things, is it not fair that you also can't come to Australia for any of the same reasons?

Maybe it will be important to stress in the outbound application, the reason for your return to Australia, as much as the reason for applying for the exemption. In the case of serious illness of a relative or for visa processing (essential for USA work) especially for a first visit during the pandemic then surely there must be common sense applied.

 

[roogirl]

Maybe it will be important to stress in the outbound application, the reason for your return to Australia, as much as the reason for applying for the exemption. In the case of serious illness of a relative or for visa processing (essential for USA work) especially for a first visit during the pandemic then surely there must be common sense applied.

But that can’t be right - the outbound exemption would become a way of morally judging a legal entry route into Australia and applying punishment if the reason for entry wasn't “worthy” enough. That would absolutely not be legal. If they want to prevent people from coming for “fun” (as if!) they should limit inbound travel to essential reasons only, gatekeep the DFAT flights etc. They don’t want to because it’s too difficult and it raises more questions around right to return/human rights - but that doesn’t change the fact that it cannot be the case that you are punished by being trapped in the outbound leg.

 

[Pushka]

But that can’t be right - the outbound exemption would become a way of morally judging a legal entry route into Australia and applying punishment if the reason for entry wasn't “worthy” enough. That would absolutely not be legal. If they want to prevent people from coming for “fun” (as if!) they should limit inbound travel to essential reasons only, gatekeep the DFAT flights etc. They don’t want to because it’s too difficult and it raises more questions around right to return/human rights - but that doesn’t change the fact that it cannot be the case that you are punished by being trapped in the outbound leg.

If they can refuse us exit based on 'worthiness' then anything seems to be up for grabs. I don't see it as punishment at all. But simply designed to stop expats coming going multiple times when Australians living here and paying taxes, are refused exit permission. Legitimate reasons for entry, I'm presuming that don't involve 'fun' according to Border Control, should be permissible.

 

[Flying mermaid]

But that can’t be right - the outbound exemption would become a way of morally judging a legal entry route into Australia and applying punishment if the reason for entry wasn't “worthy” enough. That would absolutely not be legal. If they want to prevent people from coming for “fun” (as if!) they should limit inbound travel to essential reasons only, gatekeep the DFAT flights etc. They don’t want to because it’s too difficult and it raises more questions around right to return/human rights - but that doesn’t change the fact that it cannot be the case that you are punished by being trapped in the outbound leg.

I keep saying this, but I think people are getting too worked up about it. I just can’t see exemptions not being given to people to return to their jobs and lives overseas. Perhaps there are a few cases of people constantly popping back and forth, but if they are doing it from Europe or the USA it must be costing them a fortune given the price of airfares. Even the repatriation flights aren’t cheap and then there is the cost of quarantine.

I will certainly get Master FM to detail his reason for returning - always a good idea to use every positive, but I will be amazed if too many expats are refused exemptions. No doubt the media will beat up a few cases.

 

[Flying mermaid]

If they can refuse us exit based on 'worthiness' then anything seems to be up for grabs. I don't see it as punishment at all. But simply designed to stop expats coming going multiple times when Australians living here and paying taxes, are refused exit permission. Legitimate reasons for entry, I'm presuming that don't involve 'fun' according to Border Control, should be permissible.

I don’t think it’s about fairness more about freeing up HQ spots for people who are returning intending to stay.

Dr FM was on a flight with a mining engineer who was on his 5th hotel quarantine. Must have been costing his employer a bomb as 5 x business class flights plus 5 x HQ! Now possibly he would get an exemption anyway as he really was needed to work overseas but it did mean others who were struggling to get back and possibly could only afford economy were being booted out for him.

Lets hope 70 to 80% vaccination will see an end to this struggle and deciding who is worthy and back to at least some free travel.

 

[Pushka]

I don’t think it’s about fairness more about freeing up HQ spots for people who are returning intending to stay.

Dr FM was on a flight with a mining engineer who was on his 5th hotel quarantine. Must have been costing his employer a bomb as 5 x business class flights plus 5 x HQ! Now possibly he would get an exemption anyway as he really was needed to work overseas but it did mean others who were struggling to get back and possibly could only afford economy were being booted out for him.

Lets hope 70 to 80% vaccination will see an end to this struggle and deciding who is worthy and back to at least some free travel.

Sure. Agree. But an unintended consequence is fairness to Aussies living here. That's the only way I can rationalise all the border bs.

 

[Chalkie]

You have to supply a Commonwealth of Australia stat dec with the application. Do you know if one is done outside of a Australia it would be accepted? I assume the USA has an equivalent of a JP.

Notaries public (kind of like a JP for document witnessing purposes) are ubiquitous in the USA, and are approved overseas witnesses for Commonwealth stat decs. Similarly, FM Jr may be able to readily access Australian-qualified lawyers in the USA who can also witness Cth stat decs (depending on which city he's in).

 

[Flashback]

There's discussion in a couple of places about this on AFF - but my response to the 'holiday' issue in another thread is that it perhaps depends on an individual's definition of 'holiday'.

Coming home for a friend's wedding, 50th birthday, or visiting mum and dad (who are healthy) might be considered 'holiday' in the broader sense.

Coming home to see a sick or dying relative might come under the compassionate and 'compelling' grounds.

If we can't leave here to do any of the 'holiday' things, is it not fair that you also can't come to Australia for any of the same reasons?

Maybe it will be important to stress in the outbound application, the reason for your return to Australia, as much as the reason for applying for the exemption. In the case of serious illness of a relative or for visa processing (essential for USA work) especially for a first visit during the pandemic then surely there must be common sense applied.

Why should only a sick or dying relative fall under compassionate and compelling grounds? What about mental health issues? What is deemed to be serious illness? @Seat0B has a son who likely falls under that category, as well as having admin to done that can only be done from Aus. I fall in a similar boat and before you ask, I've tried doing the admin remotely, with remote hands etc. and it just didn't work.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Why should only a sick or dying relative fall under compassionate and compelling grounds? What about mental health issues? What is deemed to be serious illness? @Seat0B has a son who likely falls under that category, as well as having admin to done that can only be done from Aus. I fall in a similar boat and before you ask, I've tried doing the admin remotely, with remote hands etc. and it just didn't work.

I don’t think there is going to be any judging of why you come back. You come back, you apply for an exemption to return to your life in England, stating you have no intention of returning for the foreseeable future. They look at your movement record (or whatever it’s called), see there is no history of frequent travel to Aus and the exemption gets sent.

don’t stress over it - I just don’t see the need! (If I am wrong I will apologise profusely).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Why should only a sick or dying relative fall under compassionate and compelling grounds? What about mental health issues? What is deemed to be serious illness? @Seat0B has a son who likely falls under that category, as well as having admin to done that can only be done from Aus. I fall in a similar boat and before you ask, I've tried doing the admin remotely, with remote hands etc. and it just didn't work.

Fair point but I think the same test should be applied to incoming arrivals as those looking to depart. A mental health illness would obviously be covered. 'I miss mum and dad (and it's having an impact on my mental health)' would be up to an assessor to determine whether it falls into the category to be allowed back in.

If people from Australia are allowed to leave to renew their residence permits in other countries, then people should be allowed into Australia to do the same.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Fair point but I think the same test should be applied to incoming arrivals as those looking to depart. A mental health illness would obviously be covered. 'I miss mum and dad (and it's having an impact on my mental health)' would be up to an assessor to determine whether it falls into the category to be allowed back in.

If people from Australia are allowed to leave to renew their residence permits in other countries, then people should be allowed into Australia to do the same.

The problem with that is Australian citizens and PRs have right of return. You can’t start discriminating. Once they are back, then the same criteria applies to all who wish to leave.

 

[Pushka]

Why should only a sick or dying relative fall under compassionate and compelling grounds? What about mental health issues? What is deemed to be serious illness? @Seat0B has a son who likely falls under that category, as well as having admin to done that can only be done from Aus. I fall in a similar boat and before you ask, I've tried doing the admin remotely, with remote hands etc. and it just didn't work.

Just examples Flashback that’s all. There are likely to be many others and mental health is another one.

Im sure we all agree the current system is a pile of Carp. There are some awfully sad stories on the closed FB groups.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Anyway it seems much ado about nothing - the revised guidelines for non-residents departing after 11 August have now been posted: Leaving Australia | COVID-19 and the border

It doesn't actually solve the issue at all (assuming that any resident overseas, other than those on a holiday or working holiday, would be able to satisfy enough of the criteria)