Article: Frequent flyers to gain under restructure

[oz_mark]

That's absolutely true - I was pointing out a current significant difference between QFF and Aeroplan.

You can currently keep QFF points indefinitely by having activity every three years. If you have such activity they will not expire until used (sans one "kicking-the-bucket"). This would be the case whether they were earned 1, 5, 15 or more years beforehand.

There are two major differences:

1) How long an account can have no activity and be considered active
(QFF - 3 years, Aeroplan - 12 months)

2) Expiration policy of points on accounts considered active
(QFF - last forever, Aeroplan - 7 years from earning)

Perhaps we need to be abit clearer about which we are talking about.

 

[serfty]

There are two major differences:

1) How long an account can have no activity and be considered active
(QFF - 3 years, Aeroplan - 12 months)

2) Expiration policy of points on accounts considered active
(QFF - last forever, Aeroplan - 7 years from earning)

Perhaps we need to be abit clearer about which we are talking about.

OK, to clarify. Currently:

• Both programs have their versions of rule type 1) and
• Only Aeroplan have a rule type 2)

Anyways, the Sky may not be falling, but in the case of these 'rule types' any change(s) in the QFF program toward the Aeroplan structure will trend to a basic reduction in the benefits of the current QFF program.

 

[simongr]

but in the case of these 'rule types' any change(s) in the QFF program toward the Aeroplan structure will trend to a basic reduction in the benefits of the current QFF program.

I am not sure that I agree. These rule changes might take some cost pressure off the program and wont impact fliers like you serfty. They may in fact be able to positively enhance the experience for you at the expense of less frequent frequent fliers...

 

[serfty]

I was referring to the effect that would be seen for most of the punters out there. I have a brother for example who is on a multi-year project trying to save enough points for his family of four to do 140K each oneworld WHY awards; as he flies very little, so this is basically being done via CC earn. Giving his FF points a limited life would make this task much harder.

Personally, the main use I have for the QFF program is upgrades WHY-J ; this is where of 350K of my QFF points have been burned in the last 12 months, accounting for 95% of my personal usage in that time. ... this brings on another issue - The introduction of PE is concerning me ... I'm expecting more points will be need for WHY -> J.

The only thing that is keeping me 100% QFF at the moment is the nearness I have to LTG; if Qantas move those goal posts or dilute the benefits much more, then AAdvantage - here I come, LTG or not!

 

[Alanslegal]

My 2cents is that if QFF ppoints have an expiry, say 12 months, regardless of how frequently or not an activity occurs on the membership 1) ALOT of irregular flyers would not bother anymore 2) Alot of flyers who use other means to earn FF points such as CC's, promotions, hotel stays, car hire,partner points etc would also probably won't bother anymore........... and then this would reduce QFF membership base = loss in loyalty = likely loss of consumption upon their partner programs as well like car rentals.
Also if they made it much harder to accumulate ie setting expiration periods on points, alot of new people would also think it is not worthwhile and therefore not join the QFF program......
IMO 20% of membership would be F Flyers, whereas the rest are hopeful FF which like to 'hopefully' accumulate enough points óne day through a mix of flights, & cc's etc to earn a free flight!!

 

[lovetravellingoz]

2) Alot of flyers who use other means to earn FF points such as CC's, promotions, hotel stays, car hire,partner points etc would also probably won't bother anymore...........

I can't follow your logic.

If the QFF is hived off as a seperate company they will want grow more money by growing their customer base and not shrinking it.

Getting more $$ from CC companies would have to be high on their agenda.



Secondly.....activity surely means any activity that transfers into the scheme??. ie credit card use, hotels, rental cars etc.

The new company will want to grow and thus will want CC companies, hotels, Renta-car companies and other partners.



One upside could mean more partners.......which could be good news. I would not envisage less.


Burn rates yes may be negatively affected.....but would anticapate mpre opportunities to earn.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I have a brother for example who is on a multi-year project trying to save enough points for his family of four to do 140K each oneworld WHY awards; !

That is basically what I am looking to do too.

Last year I earnt 200,000 points fom various sources but only about 50,000 or less was from flights.....so I need a number of years to get what I need.

Though as there are 5 of us I am thinking of perhaps only redeeming for 3 or 4 and buying the other 1 or 2.

 

[simongr]

I was referring to the effect that would be seen for most of the punters out there. I have a brother for example who is on a multi-year project trying to save enough points for his family of four to do 140K each oneworld WHY awards; as he flies very little, so this is basically being done via CC earn. Giving his FF points a limited life would make this task much harder.

I am not sure I agree again. Obviously I can not disagree that your brother is saving in the long term for his trip but if he is slowly earning points then he has some activity surely thus teh life of points wont impact him - it would only be (under an 18 month use them/lose them scenario) if he did nothing for 18 months that he would lose out - again I don't think that is a major drama.

S

 

[jakeseven7]

I am not sure I agree again. Obviously I can not disagree that your brother is saving in the long term for his trip but if he is slowly earning points then he has some activity surely thus teh life of points wont impact him - it would only be (under an 18 month use them/lose them scenario) if he did nothing for 18 months that he would lose out - again I don't think that is a major drama.

S

LOL, there are always a few headless chooks when any kind of change is mooted.... I can't really see the logic behind many of the recent posts as well they are drawing some loooong bows based purely on speculation.

Lets not forget that in many cases you can keep all your FF points with your credit card provider until you need to use them anyway... who says you need to transfer them straight away... I always keep them with Amex/Citibank until I plan to use them...

 

[serfty]

... Lets not forget that in many cases you can keep all your FF points with your credit card provider until you need to use them anyway... who says you need to transfer them straight away... I always keep them with Amex/Citibank until I plan to use them...

Not in all cases. In fact many of the (less expensive) 1:1 cards now have an automatic transfer of points to QFF. For many, it's not that easy to simply change cards.

YMMV

 

[Va Bene]

I agree with lovetravellingoz that there will be more CC partners if it the FFP is sold/taken over. According to John Faine on 774AM yesterday, Qantas rake in over $100mil from credit card, hire card, hotels etc so it is a nice earner for them and would be further leveraged by another organisation looking at maximising profits.
My main concern with any changes is the possible points redemption devaluation (and especially from Y to J upgrades).

 

[serfty]

... - it would only be (under an 18 month use them/lose them scenario) if he did nothing for 18 months that he would lose out - again I don't think that is a major drama. ..

The issue is as posted:

...
2) Expiration policy of points on accounts considered active
(QFF - last forever, Aeroplan - 7 years from earning)

There is nothing to say that any changes the the QFF program in the future (near or far) will include such a mandated point expiry clause as is the case in Aeroplan.

Anyway, we have no real choice, but to await news of this which may be in the next few days as reported by the article.

Just for a little history; have a look at these threads back from November 2004 just before the last set of changes were announced.

• Before the Details were announced:
  • FlyerTalk: Possible Programme Change (Again)?
• After the Details were announced:
  • AFF: QFF programme changes - AGAIN! Can't be good news?
  • FlyerTalk: QANTAS new rule changes

 

[gwilliamb]

If the changes are to be anything like that which happened with Air New Zealand I am worried. Yes, you can book any seat that is available but they are generally much more expensive than say Qantas. I think the conversion rate they used when changing over from the old points to Airpoint Dollars was about 87 old points per AP$

 

[bigjobs]

they need to change the name from frequent flyer points to frequent spender points ... this business of linking credit card purchases to frequent flyer point earning is crazy. that means there are too many of them around and thus they are devalued. frequent flyer points ought to be just that, points for people who fly frequently. have another scheme for the credit card users. same goes for hire car companies and all other stuff linked to ff programs.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

they need to change the name from frequent flyer points to frequent spender points ... this business of linking credit card purchases to frequent flyer point earning is crazy. that means there are too many of them around and thus they are devalued. frequent flyer points ought to be just that, points for people who fly frequently. have another scheme for the credit card users. same goes for hire car companies and all other stuff linked to ff programs.

That is why Qantas has Status Credits....

 

[simongr]

But you cant redeem many flights using Status credits...

 

[bigjobs]

But you cant redeem many flights using Status credits...

exactly ... i'm not talking about status within the program i'm talking about getting my cough on a seat using my frequent flyer points.

 

[bigjobs]

That is why Qantas has Status Credits....

yeah, i understand that. not getting at status within the program though.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

exactly ... i'm not talking about status within the program i'm talking about getting my cough on a seat using my frequent flyer points.

Though Status gets you access to more seats....or upgrades...(as well as other perks such as greater point earn rate, lounge access etyc...)and can only be gained by flying....

Hence it is a reward that can only be gained by frequent flyers....

 

[simongr]

Giving high status passengers access to more economy award seats is not a benefit to me.