Are you in the Know?? Email

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d15.in.oz said:
:rolleyes: sarcasm... right? (OR do you mean low cost to them, high cost to their guests?)
Nope, not at all!

I realise that Virgin Blue's fares have gone up over time. However they are no longer a LCC and I am happy to pay for the additional benefits. But they still offer consistently low fares that are available at short lead-times (e.g. the day before). QF has low fares too, but not as many as far as I can tell because they become unavailable way earlier than DJ. QF still gouges wherever it can, e.g. witness last year's Melbourne footy finals when PER-MEL and PER-SYD fares were all full Y, and look at J fares to almost everywhere domestic. QF would not be offering red-e-deals if it were not for DJ. And I doubt that JQ would even exist if it were not for Virgin Blue.
 
Yadda Yadda said:
… they are no longer a LCC and I am happy to pay for the additional benefits.
What, pay twice? With a higher fare AND then a user pays system (for the Lounge & Live TV as examples on a Blue Saver or Flexi Saver fare).


Can you please be a bit more specific about what benefits you are now enjoying (included in higher priced lead in fares) that weren’t on offer before?!

Yadda Yadda said:
But they still offer consistently low fares that are available at short lead-times (e.g. the day before). QF has low fares too, but not as many as far as I can tell because they become unavailable way earlier than DJ...
In my experience, it’s the other way around, with more availability of red-e deals, in general, at the last minute, when compared to Blue Savers, on the routes that I am interested in. YMMV


Yadda Yadda said:
I doubt that JQ would even exist if it were not for Virgin Blue.
Maybe… but for me this is NOT a QF vs DJ thing, its about DJ having forgotten to keep the air fair (while they have successfully expanded their customer base), regardless of how loony QF have got with their pricing!
 
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d15.in.oz said:
What, pay twice? With a higher fare AND then a user pays system (for the Lounge & Live TV as examples on a Blue Saver or Flexi Saver fare).
OK I'll bite. The Lounge has long since operated on same principle as the Qantas Club - pay for membership and then inside it's all free - including the wifi which Qantas always charged you for before we did it for free and forced them to follow suite. As for liveTV, well you couldn't get it on Qantas if you wanted to pay for it so it's not as though you are paying for something Qantas "give" you anyway.
 
Yada Yada said:
I realise that Virgin Blue's fares have gone up over time. However they are no longer a LCC and I am happy to pay for the additional benefits. But they still offer consistently low fares that are available at short lead-times (e.g. the day before).
I don't mean to be rude but away from published sales DJ airfares are almost exactly the same as QF airfares. A couple of months ago I looked at going to ADL over the weekend. I thought why not give DJ a chance as they are sure to be cheaper than QF. To my surprise the airfare was exactly the same as QF. I have at other times looked at DJ airfares to BNE and MEL at short notice. Again airfare the same as QF.

Why should I fly DJ?
 
There's always interesting individual situations.

Last year I broke my DJ virginity because of an $85 BNE-MEL fare on a Saturday evening and a $165 Friday evening fare; the cheapest QF fare either way for the same times was about $250. Booked the Wednesday before the flight. There was no special Sale or anything; the fare was simply cheap. FWIW, the flights were quite crowded.
 
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d15.in.oz said:
What, pay twice? With a higher fare AND then a user pays system (for the Lounge & Live TV as examples on a Blue Saver or Flexi Saver fare).

Can you please be a bit more specific about what benefits you are now enjoying (included in higher priced lead in fares) that weren’t on offer before?!

In my experience, it’s the other way around, with more availability of red-e deals, in general, at the last minute, when compared to Blue Savers, on the routes that I am interested in. YMMV

Maybe… but for me this is NOT a QF vs DJ thing, its about DJ having forgotten to keep the air fair (while they have successfully expanded their customer base), regardless of how loony QF have got with their pricing!

d15.in.oz - I can't work out what you are talking about when you say "pay twice". On my weekly flights I can always get a lower fare on Virgin Blue. I am a lounge member so there is no additional cost. I pay my $5 to watch the IFE system which in my experience is way ahead of QF's IFE - I'll take live news, live sport, variety shows etc over QF's canned system with outdated Channel 9 News, sitcoms that didn't make the grade on free-to-air, and endless "you're on-Q" adverts with elevator music.

I think DJ have kept the air fare, and continue to do so in spades. :D
 
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For me, flying DJ is certainly cheaper. Refering to the fare charts for PER-SYD, the route I travel most often:
DJ = $235
QF = $281
a saving of $46 each way or around 20%. Even more if I fly mid week and get a $215 'Mid Week Mini' from DJ. From my experience, I've only once had a QF flight come out cheaper, and it was booked at the last minute, so it was just luck of the draw really and I payed quite a bit for that flight.
 
crazydave98 said:
The Lounge has long since operated on same principle as the Qantas Club
Yes, but that is not the point, presumably the Lounge is self funding, so it doesn’t factor as an incremental benefit for a higher ticket price paid by guests. BTW the Lounge is an excellent improvement on the Blue Room.


crazydave98 said:
including the wifi which Qantas always charged you for before we did it for free and forced them to follow suite.
When this happened I was the number 2 post of congratulation on AFF http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/qantas-frequent-flyer/free-wireless-in-the-qp-9555.html#post120737
(not that, that is important, only to show I am not JUST a knocker!)

crazydave98 said:
As for liveTV, well you couldn't get it on Qantas if you wanted to pay for it so it's not as though you are paying for something Qantas "give" you anyway…
If I must compare, it is to QF transcontinental services where I get anything from a movie to AVOD. Of course DJ vs QF, is about live news, sport, "TV" vs general entertainment/drama/movies tailored to the flight time or my personal requirements… (A mix of both will be the on-board future winner I figure.) But again the point is, higher fare AND I still have to pay for the great service enhancements. Oh, and vs JQ (cause it is!) I like their video player as well! (Even if they weren't offically 1st to market :p )


Qantas does not set the pace, it is a market follower… (It sees what works, then reasonably swiftly introduces the innovation [enhanced to their standards] themselves.) If I worked at an airline, I would not hold them up as a shining source of comparison.
 
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Yada Yada said:
d15.in.oz - I can't work out what you are talking about when you say "pay twice". On my weekly flights I can always get a lower fare
I am comparing DJ prices to the DJ prices of only a few years ago. (NOT QF, nor anyone else). :) And your comment -
Yada Yada said:
I realise that Virgin Blue's fares have gone up over time...
 
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JohnK said:
I don't mean to be rude but away from published sales DJ airfares are almost exactly the same as QF airfares. A couple of months ago I looked at going to ADL over the weekend. I thought why not give DJ a chance as they are sure to be cheaper than QF. To my surprise the airfare was exactly the same as QF. I have at other times looked at DJ airfares to BNE and MEL at short notice. Again airfare the same as QF.

Why should I fly DJ?
Hi John!

I never consider you to be rude, mate. :) As for me, well... :oops:

Yes, published fares are almost the same and sometimes QF has a few cheaper fares on certain routes (e.g. when they offer domestic legs on international flights). However I purchase my tickets weekly, often 3-5 days in advance. Virgin Blue is always cheaper at this point in time (by a long shot) unless I am prepared to fly outside of peak time, which I am not - I want to spend a full day in MEL or BNE so I fly at peak times. I never see cheap QF fares at times I want to fly unless I book much further in advance.

As for reasons to fly DJ, for me it's not just the cost. Of course, YMMV but for me:
  • Flight crews are better (friendlier, more helpful)
  • Ground crews are better (friendlier, more helpful)
  • Seat pitch is better
  • Aircraft are consistently better quality
  • IFE is better
  • The Lounge is better (quieter, better coffee, free internet)
  • The flights are more likely to be on time or early

The sole point of difference I see is that QF serve food/beverage on board as part of the price. As a Lounge member, I don't need this on short haul because I eat/drink before boarding.

On longer haul, I do need something to eat and drink. When I did SYD-PER a few months back, I flew over on DJ and back on QF. On the way over, I paid $30 extra for blue zone seating. I sat in 15F, there was another pax in 15D and 15E was empty, so great leg room and plenty of lateral space too. For lunch I ate the Asian style beef curry with rice & veg which cost about $7.00 and it was as good if not better tasting than my local Asian restaurant.

Compare with the return on QF. At check-in I ask about seating, hoping my SG will get me something OK. The counter person says "I can get you an exit row". Great, I think to myself. Get on board (747-300), find myself in an A seat where there is no window and the space is restricted because of the door alongside me. I am sitting next to two no-status pax who are backpacking. Ahead of me, I see rows of pax where A & C are taken and B is empty. Did the counter person think to advise me of this? My status counted for nought and I had an uncomfortable flight. The meal that was served was unedible - it was an Italian beef dish with pasta and veg. I could not get my plastic fork to penetrate the "mashed" potato. People make jokes about airline food - this was the worst I've seen.

Now, I am not trying to bag QF - the crew on my PER-SYD was very good. But compared to DJ it was not worth it. My status did not help, whereas on DJ I selected where I wanted to sit and I'd rather pay for a decent meal than be served up rubbish for free.

I can't fault the QF J flights I've taken this year - crews great, food and wine great. But it costs an arm and a leg on short haul. I keep my eye out for a D fare and occasionally splurge. But as for sitting down the back on QF - I'm way better off on DJ. Of course, YMMV and as a Plat I'm sure you get a better deal.
 
d15.in.oz said:
I am comparing DJ prices to the DJ prices of only a few years ago. (NOT QF, nor anyone else). :) And your comment -
As I said, I don't mind paying a bit more for the good service I receive on Virgin Blue, as mentioned in the long post above. QF does itself a disservice by offering cheap economy fares and serving up inedible meals or simply crackets and a popper and passing this off as a meal service.
 
Yada Yada said:
...I don't mind paying a bit more for the good service ...
So, we will need to agree to disagree about the value proposition of "good service"...in itself, an interesting place to agree to do so! :)
 
Yada Yada said:
But as for sitting down the back on QF - I'm way better off on DJ. Of course, YMMV and as a Plat I'm sure you get a better deal.
What can I say Peter? Great reply.

I think for me status plays a big part as I don't fly that often but often enough for it to be important. I cannot split my travel between 2 FF programs as I need to maintain QF Platinum and hopefully will only just make it with the last flight before my membership year is up next May. Plus the difference in airfares has to be significant for me to consider another carrier.

I don't want to line up in the economy queue.

Use of lounge is nice but is not the ultimate selling point.

Being able to sit in economy in a seat where someone cannot recline in front of you is priceless. With my upcoming RTW for all QF flights that I did not already have forward bulkhead allocated I requested exit row 46 and the seat(s) were allocated within a couple hours of the request.

As I mentioned earlier if DJ would join *Alliance or SkyTeam then I would consider them as my preferred carrier if QF continues down the path they are on now.
 
I am so happy to have found that email in my junk box....

To get BOT did anyone else get the email. It appears that only 3 or so people actually got it.

As a reasonably new poster to this it is good to see the different perspectives that people have.

It still begs the original question that I dont think has been answered, with the exception of one person that is "in the know", but couldnt divulge anything...and that question is what are the other enhancements that will be offered. As per the email, "will ensure that you'll receive some exciting news about the dynamic and ever evolving Velocity Rewards program "

So, now we have had the speculation about what we all want from the virgin/velocity program, but what I want to know is if anyone really knows what is going to come our way.... or is it a sit and wait game???



PS - I haven't flown anywhere for 15 days now and I am suffering horrible withdrawal sypmtons. I check to see if points have posted, and have to remind myself that I actually haven't been anywhere.....aaarggghh..:D :D
 
Yada Yada said:
As for reasons to fly DJ, for me it's not just the cost. Of course, YMMV but for me:
  • The flights are more likely to be on time or early
.

As you menitioned all opinions are subjective but you can't use this one anymore :p , it is clear now that QF domestic is the leading on time airline - go and check the stats for yourself! Jan-April 07 are available for direct comparison, and QF domestic is ahead of DJ every month.

QF link even beats Virgin for a couple of months, its now JQ and DJ fighting for the wooden spoon.

(Which is why DJ cannot advertise anymore they are the leading on time airline)
 
jakeseven7 said:
As you menitioned all opinions are subjective but you can't use this one anymore :p , it is clear now that QF domestic is the leading on time airline - go and check the stats for yourself! Jan-April 07 are available for direct comparison, and QF domestic is ahead of DJ every month.

QF link even beats Virgin for a couple of months, its now JQ and DJ fighting for the wooden spoon.

(Which is why DJ cannot advertise anymore they are the leading on time airline)
I wasn't aware that QF had finally caught up! The margins are pretty slim aren't they - mostly 1% difference, and looking at the history it's not as if Virgin Blue's OTP has declined. QF has actually improved. Good on them. But yet again, Virgin Blue brings benefits to Qantas passengers by setting a better benchmark. :D
 
JohnK said:
I think for me status plays a big part as I don't fly that often but often enough for it to be important. I cannot split my travel between 2 FF programs as I need to maintain QF Platinum and hopefully will only just make it with the last flight before my membership year is up next May. Plus the difference in airfares has to be significant for me to consider another carrier.

I don't want to line up in the economy queue.

Use of lounge is nice but is not the ultimate selling point.

Being able to sit in economy in a seat where someone cannot recline in front of you is priceless. With my upcoming RTW for all QF flights that I did not already have forward bulkhead allocated I requested exit row 46 and the seat(s) were allocated within a couple hours of the request.

As I mentioned earlier if DJ would join *Alliance or SkyTeam then I would consider them as my preferred carrier if QF continues down the path they are on now.
John,

You make very good points. One of the things that I like about my QF Gold status is the ability to bypass long check-in queues - I usually just go up to the QP to check-in. Your abililty as a Plat to pre-select an exit row in advance and thereby avoid recliners on long haul flights would be valuable indeed.

BTW, I haven't flown the past 2 weeks due to a number of staff being on leave, but I'll be back on deck from next week so I'll PM you and we'll try to catch up! ;)
 
Late mail for the 27th: Star Alliance & Virgin Pacific... that's right... "Virgin Pacific" - the name has been cleared by SQ. If the Tab had odds on this, I'd be there now.
 
Bottla said:
Late mail for the 27th: Star Alliance & Virgin Pacific... that's right... "Virgin Pacific" - the name has been cleared by SQ. If the Tab had odds on this, I'd be there now.

Really? Where's this from? Just when I was giving up all hope...

As for odds, I'll draw some up. I'm not going to pay any of them :p, but just for boredom's sake...

NAME OF THE INTERNATIONAL AIRLINE

Matilda Blue 15.00
V Australia Airlines 17.50
Australia Blue 1.75
Virgin Pacific 2.50
Amelia Blue 1500.00
Didgeree Blue 150.00
Liberty Blue 125.00
Virgin Australia 75.00


VELOCITY ANNOUNCEMENT

Nothing 3.00
Star Alliance (immediate) 25.00
Star Alliance (eventual) 5.00
Skyteam (imediate) 45.00
Skyteam (eventual) 25.00
Domestic J class 15.00
Velocity tiers 4.50
Points on new airline 1.50
New non-airline partner 7.50
New airline partner 8.50
Combination of the above 0.50 ;)

NB. What I mean by 'immediate' and 'eventual' is whether (i think it was said before on this forum) DJ say 'as of now we are part of...' or whether they say 'we will be taking steps to become members of...'

Happy imaginary betting! :p
 
stuartfaz said:
New non-airline partner 7.50

Don't they just announce these as they come along. Saville was recently added and Rydges is in the pipeline
 
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