Are other airlines also as bad as Qantas?

[JohnK]

The thing I've taken away from this thread is, whenever booking premium class travel, take a screenshot showing the economy class prices on the same date/flight, to have some documentary proof should arguing for an equitable refund become necessary.

My take on the matter is don't book premium travel with Qantas and you won't be disappointed.

The worst that can happen to a downgrade from economy is to be put in the hold. On some of the flights I've had that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Oh and I understand about the stance of not accepting a transfer from QF to JQ flight. How does anyone even think this is a like for like comparison? You may as well accept a trip in a kayak across the Bass Strait.

 

[coco50]

My take on the matter is don't book premium travel with Qantas and you won't be disappointed.

The worst that can happen to a downgrade from economy is to be put in the hold. On some of the flights I've had that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Oh and I understand about the stance of not accepting a transfer from QF to JQ flight. How does anyone even think this is a like for like comparison? You may as well accept a trip in a kayak across the Bass Strait.

Being in the hold on QF or in a plastic chair in the aisle is far preferable to flying Y on American

 

[phred505]

Pity we don't have any heavy hitting consumer protection organisations in Australia. ACCC? .....

But we do have, the Victorian Consumer Affairs/Dept. of Fair Trading in NSW etc.

And wait....there's more: the ABC "Checkout" show and of course the ever present "Facebook"


con...

 

[Renato1]

So, you bought a Business ticket which was downgraded to Economy, and compensation is the difference between it and the highest price Economy ticket - which you never would have bought at the time of making the booking. You have in effect been forced to buy that high-priced ticket by someone exercising what may be opined to be an unreasonable exercise of market power.

In my opinion, what you describe is the equivalent to going to a major electrical retailer and buying their best Sony TV, and on finding that it doesn't work, the retailer tells you that you can only have a partial refund and the next model down in exchange for it. You note that that model is currently on sale and is several hundred dollars cheaper than its regular price, but the retailer tells you that you must pay the full price. In my opinion, the ACCC would be down like a ton of bricks on that retailer - because they like open and shut cases where Trade Practices legislation is blatantly breached.

You can ring Qantas, ask to speak to someone in Authority (no point speaking to Indians, you need to speak to Chiefs whose jobs may be on the line), write down his or her name, and ask him or her to explain why he/she thinks they are not in breach of Trade Practices legislation. And if you don't like the answer, advise that you will be putting this issue to the ACCC.

Or you can ring the ACCC, and ask the same question, and take it fom there - either Qantas are in the right, or you lodge a formal complaint to the ACCC.

I've rung the ACCC in the past and have gotten good explanations, and at another time where I wrote to them, they did do an investigation into the market factors associated with my complaint.
Regards,
Renato

 

[N860CR]

The difficulty with this course of action in the OP's circumstances are that the downgrade was only for part of the journey. I think it's hard to request a chargeback when the majority of the flights were as purchased. I'm not sure how chargebacks work - can one request a partial chargeback?

Yes you can. I did exactly that with Expedia. Disputed 50% of the cost.

I did receive it back with no issues, however I think Expedia are just so blatantly incompetent they couldn't figure out how to respond to Westpac. Qantas, on the other hand, might put up a fight

 

[Anna]

In my opinion, what you describe is the equivalent to going to a major electrical retailer and buying their best Sony TV, and on finding that it doesn't work, the retailer tells you that you can only have a partial refund and the next model down in exchange for it.

That analogy doesn't work for the NZ flights. The pax was told the equivalent of 'you can have the best Sony in our next delivery which is at 5pm' but the pax didn't want to wait until 5pm and effectively volunteered to accept the next model down, which was available more quickly. Aircraft schedules are generally not an enforceable part of the contract, and an 8 hour delay flying internationally is not rare.

The CBR MEL downgrade without comp is different though. I wish someone would take QF on legally about their pathetic or non existent comp for involuntary downgrades. I'd like to see the outcome - suspect it would not be in QF's favour.

 

[hotanddusty]

The Qantas airline is really Jet Star in disguise! and as you may have noticed over the years since Dixon left the helm every thing aboutQantas has been down graded including there attitude to there customers

 

[BAM1748]

That analogy doesn't work for the NZ flights. The pax was told the equivalent of 'you can have the best Sony in our next delivery which is at 5pm' but the pax didn't want to wait until 5pm and effectively volunteered to accept the next model down, which was available more quickly. Aircraft schedules are generally not an enforceable part of the contract, and an 8 hour delay flying internationally is not rare.

The CBR MEL downgrade without comp is different though. I wish someone would take QF on legally about their pathetic or non existent comp for involuntary downgrades. I'd like to see the outcome - suspect it would not be in QF's favour.

Agree, I'm a great supporter of QF and always choose them if they fly the route. But QF/Red Roo are pathetic and I'm embassed sometimes to say I'm a supporter with their non acceptance and non action on this.

Matt

 

[wicks21]

3 years ago I was on a return award flight SYD-PER on Business when Qantas downgraded me on the return leg stating there was a "problem with he seat". When I boarded I noticed that Business was full and someone sitting in what should have been my seat. Whilst they refunded the points difference, I was not happy and wrote a detailed complaint. Qantas responded that it is possible the seat was defective hence allocated to an off duty crew member! Anyway in response to my stating this was rank BS and complaining they did give me a $200 travel voucher. They have not done this to me since...

OK need to have a rant . I tend to buy business class airfares for Miss FM and her partner - she is a bit fragile healthwise and I like to make sure she is comfortable.

In January I paid for business class airfares CBR- AKL. She ended up flying 3 of the 4 legs in Economy due to a range of operational problems. That was kind of OK, except Qantas did nothing for her in Sydney initially after the CBR- SYD leg was screwed up, caused huge amount of stress for her (and me), which is exactly what I am trying to avoid. She did eventually find a really nice lady at the sales desk in Sydney who sorted things out after some hours, which involved flying economy to Auckland, but at least got her there earlier than after midnight. All Qantas could offer to start was a 5pm flight instead of the initially booked 9am one!

Fast forward to today - she is leaving for Singapore on the 9th and some time ago I booked two J returns for them. They have now substituted the CBR-MEL leg with economy. Not a biggie - only an hour. Also the flight coming home is now a -200. I spent many hours researching best seats for a couple and had them in row 3 a and whatever the centre one is, so they were next to each. Now of course in a 200 they will be in different rows. Once again, yes they can substitute anything they like and yes it is not a biggie, as they will sleep.

However I just don't know why I bother paying for J for them when they seem to end up in Y half the time! Why do I bother selecting seats! Now that Singapore is flying out of Canberra that is what I will choose for them next time.

Which then got me thinking - I know Qantas isn't alone in doing this sort of thing. What are other airlines like though? Having flown Qantas pretty exclusively in the past, it has seemed to me over the past 5 or 6 years that my bookings and my family's booking are constantly stuffed up with equipment changes and flight changes.

I did phone and have a whine to Qantas and it takes a lot to make me pick up a phone. I actually don't care at all about compensation, although I feel if you pay for a business class airfare there should be something if they involuntarily downgrade you. But no nothing - all they did as a huge concession which took 1/2 hour of talking in the back ground with her supervisor, was agree to Business status credits for that flight.

So Qantas - the airline where you pay for business fares in order to fly economy

 

[raysgirl]

Without seeing the airfare construction, I would imagine that this has been calculated as a "through" fare from CBR to SIN and return. That is, it is not made up of a CBR to SYD airfare plus a SYD to SIN airfare. If it has been constructed as a through fare, there probably isn't any difference in price if the CBR to SYD is in J or Y.
However, if it was constructed as two separate fares - then you are definitely entitled to a refund.
And no, refunds are not just restricted to international fares.

 

[Flying mermaid]

That analogy doesn't work for the NZ flights. The pax was told the equivalent of 'you can have the best Sony in our next delivery which is at 5pm' but the pax didn't want to wait until 5pm and effectively volunteered to accept the next model down, which was available more quickly. Aircraft schedules are generally not an enforceable part of the contract, and an 8 hour delay flying internationally is not rare.

The CBR MEL downgrade without comp is different though. I wish someone would take QF on legally about their pathetic or non existent comp for involuntary downgrades. I'd like to see the outcome - suspect it would not be in QF's favour.

I agree about the NZ flight, which is why I didn't ask for any compensation that time. I was more annoyed at the incredibly dismissive way she was treated initially, when she really needed to get to Auckland in a more timely manner and no-one was the slightest interested in her or her problem. After numerous phone calls between us I sent her off to talk to the sales desk and it was all solved. Why couldn't the other staff she tried to talk to be equally ready to offer some service or send her off to an appropriate place. She pretty much got the stiff bikkies attitude. Possibly because she is young. The last time I paid for her to travel first on Qantas she ended up taking her own bed apart. She did ask a flight attendant and got the "yes we will be there in a minute dear" and after half an hour when no-one came near her she stripped it herself. Miss FM is a very gentle person - makes me look like Attila the Hun.

I really think this compensation thing won't be solved until we have legislation to force Qantas to do the right thing. Their terms and conditions pretty much allow them to do what they like.

I haven't decided what to do when she gets back - the email said to ask for compensation on her return and I know I should, but I am pretty sure it will come back saying no - see our terms and conditions and I am no longer angry enough for a fight.

I think just giving up on Qantas internationally and trying Singapore and others is easier. We've just had such a bad run and although a big part of me wants to stay with them, it just isn't working for us!

 

[BAM1748]

The other annoying thing, when they do give you the "Red Roo Refund" shall we call it, they don't apologise and say the money will be returned to your card immediately so you have it the next day. No, can't do that.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Without seeing the airfare construction, I would imagine that this has been calculated as a "through" fare from CBR to SIN and return. That is, it is not made up of a CBR to SYD airfare plus a SYD to SIN airfare. If it has been constructed as a through fare, there probably isn't any difference in price if the CBR to SYD is in J or Y.
However, if it was constructed as two separate fares - then you are definitely entitled to a refund.
And no, refunds are not just restricted to international fares.

I agree it is probably a through fare without much actual monetary difference. Compensation is about more than just the monetary difference though. I bought the fares in good faith and expected to get a business flight on that sector for my daughter and her fiancee. They have had the money for six months or more. 10 days before the flight for their convenience they change the equipment - why should they be able to do that and get off scot free. Just treating their customers with contempt.

 

[timster]

What we need is a retired QC to take this on, a la "The Castle". Surely it's against the Australian Constitution ... or at least the vibe.

 

[Flying mermaid]

What we need is a retired QC to take this on, a la "The Castle". Surely it's against the Australian Constitution ... or at least the vibe.

It is a business class fare - hard to see much sympathy from the average Australian - that's why we have this board

 

[gphamor]

If I can make a suggestion: Go to the Qantas Facebook page and write exactly what you have written on this forum. I have had issues with Virgin, and more recently with Etihad and was stuffed around for ages. A friend suggested posting a complaint on the respective Facebook page of each airline and within 24 hours both problems were solved.
The airlines are unlikely to monitor posts on fora such as this but you can bet your boots they have a dedicated team monitoring their Facebook page.

 

[love_the_life]

Actually FB is not such a bad idea. I posted a rant (well a mini one) after a short Celebrity cruise when some of the amenities that should have been included in my cabin fare (aqua class) were not delivered. It wasn't a biggie but I was annoyed as I had talked daughter into accompanying me and MrLtL and I had a cruise booked with them a month or so later. Within a day I had a phone call from them and a refund of half the cruise cost (not a lot as it was only a one nighter but I was using it as a chance to see the ship before our other cruise). Extremely pleased with their response.
Unfortunately daughter did not find cruising to her liking.

 

[love_the_life]

From my daughter's experience on a couple of QF flights in J, with rude FAs and generally being ignored, I don't think QF do well recognising that young people travelling in premium cabins should be provided with the same level of service as older passengers. She's actually not that young, just looks it. And a BP that states Dr.. should make that obvious. She hasn't had the same issues on most other carriers and she used to do a lot of international travel for work.

 

[prozac]

Actually FB is not such a bad idea. I posted a rant (well a mini one) after a short Celebrity cruise ... Within a day I had a phone call from them and a refund of half the cruise cost (not a lot as it was only a one nighter but I was using it as a chance to see the ship before our other cruise). ...

Good result l_t_l but don't bank on it. Mrs prozac and I had an incidence on VA where at boarding we were misdirected to board the wrong way (by rear door) and then when we returned misdirected a 2nd time only to find that the FA failed to perform her duties properly and we had to return back to the waiting area again as rear stairs had been removed, this time to find ourselves locked in the stairwell. There being no-one within sight I banged on the locked glass doors only to have same worthless FA round the corner and abuse us threatening security. On arrival at destination we discovered our baggage had not been loaded on the flight. Best I got from VA after some weeks was a poor apology where they tried to shift blame away from the pi55-poor FA.
Afraid I do not have a good opinion of Australian airline accountability.

 

[love_the_life]

Not a good result for you prozac. Think I might have been lucky as this was the debut of the ship in Australia, had lots of TAs on board (met several) and was plagued with a host of problems, the most notable of which seemed to be that passenger's sea pass cards would not open their cabin doors (oops). I think they wanted to cut down on the negative publicity. Anyway I was happy, and the cruise we took later was great.