Amex Plat Charge Card - $1450 of Customer Service!

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TonyHancock

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Aug 26, 2010
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Whilst the debate, and fight, rages between Amex and its customers over the 2019 Great Points Devaluation I find myself locked in an almost continuous dispute with a Customer Service Department that is day by day wearing down my will to live. Apparently, so I am now told, when you renew your charge card you get the option to select the masochism button - which I clearly did - by mistake - my ingrained cowardice usually keeps me well away from that sort of thing. :p

As my finger hovers above the mouse to hit the "Submit Complaint" button on the AFCA site I am reflecting upon what has brought me here. This particular complaint is the straw that broke the camel's back....although this straw is probably the biggest of all of the recent straws. (Mmmmmmmm not sure this idiom is working at all well!!)

On a sunny day in November seven transactions were made on my Plat charge card, all to Spotify, one at $0.99, one at $11.99 and five at $143.88. I reported them on the 19th November and was told that they had been made on an old card in my history and was given the last five digits of the card. Thinking nothing more of it, and quite frankly celebrating that I didn't have to use my Dremel Multitool* to destroy my current card, I settled into a rather fabulous Dry Martini (6 oz Coates Navy Strength Gin waved in the general direction of Italy.) I thought nothing more of it.

A week or so later I noticed that only five of the transactions were in the dispute process and a follow up call established that two had been missed off by the ever vigilant Amex Fraud squad. A day later I noticed one had been closed.

The rather helpful chap at Amex told me that Spotify had provided an invoice so it was a legitimate transaction. "Mmmmm^" I said. I had sent Griselda to the loft the previous day to uncover all of my Amex statements for the last 20 years and, whilst it had taken her all day, she did manage to ascertain that the card used for the fraudulent transactions had been replaced in 2012.

So how does one get into the business of using withdrawn cards from years ago with expiry dates going back to Queen Victoria's reign to make brand spanking new transactions? (I am careful with these words because I can sort of see how recurring fees may crop up this way, although six years is quite a while ago.)

Even allowing for the original fraud I can't get my head around why this was not picked up when reported, it is absolutely glaring. I am also wondering how successful at preventing/clearing up fraud at Amex might be if IQ was one of the requirements for employment.

As an aside and reported elsewhere I have experienced the following in the last six weeks.

Incorrect points allocation for overseas transactions
Failure to provide the details to the fix to the above!! (third request in now)
Incorrect points allocation for local transactions
Failure to credit commission charges on overseas fraudulent charges (despite letters confirming this was done)
Failure to call back on five occasions - looking likely to be six today.

Amex was my sure fire, absolute, cast iron, go to card. Up until about six months ago I could only report how good my experiences were - in the last six months it has been awful and I do wonder if there are some serious systems issues as well as just very poor customer service. :(

*How else to you cut up these new fangled metal cards? :p
^Or something like that.
 
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Does this card provide a 'Concierge'?

If so, are they any good?

Yes it does.

I haven't used the service that often but when I have they have always been friendly and helpful.

My biggest win was that they were able to get me a table at Quay restaurant in Sydney 8 weeks out when all other avenues to book one said 'no'.
 
Its an interesting story. When a transaction is disputed AMEX would send a request to the merchant to either accept the chargeback, or provide proof that the charges are genuine. So Spotify has provided an invoice, of course they can, someone has subscribed to the service. However that invoice doesnt go very far in proving that YOU subscribed to the service. Lets give an example, if the disputed transaction was from Kogan, they would provide proof in form of an invoice, AND a courier delivery record, signed for by the receiver, if its your address and your kids handwiting, you are screwed. So your mission, is to respond to AMEX and demand from them how that spotify invoice proves that the transaction was authorised by you.

Additionally, if its identified that the credit card details have been stolen/cloned, the Credit card companies dont even chargeback to the merchant, they will just write it off themselves, because the industry accepts that its a weakness in their system and legally they cant enforce responsibility from the cardholder. Its such a surprise to me that a fraud dept at a mahor organisation is not recognising this, the likes of spotify and netflix are commonly used by criminals to test stolen cards, and the pattern of transactions on yours fits the usual method to a tee.

Anyway, your primary case against Amex is the law. Pursue that to the fullest, its AMEX responsibility to prove the transaction was authorised by you, not for you to prove its not.



(normally I dont read long whinges that are full of fluff and emotion, this wasnt one of those, thanks for the entertainment)
 
Its an interesting story. When a transaction is disputed AMEX would send a request to the merchant to either accept the chargeback, or provide proof that the charges are genuine. So Spotify has provided an invoice, of course they can, someone has subscribed to the service. However that invoice doesnt go very far in proving that YOU subscribed to the service. Lets give an example, if the disputed transaction was from Kogan, they would provide proof in form of an invoice, AND a courier delivery record, signed for by the receiver, if its your address and your kids handwiting, you are screwed. So your mission, is to respond to AMEX and demand from them how that spotify invoice proves that the transaction was authorised by you.

Additionally, if its identified that the credit card details have been stolen/cloned, the Credit card companies dont even chargeback to the merchant, they will just write it off themselves, because the industry accepts that its a weakness in their system and legally they cant enforce responsibility from the cardholder. Its such a surprise to me that a fraud dept at a mahor organisation is not recognising this, the likes of spotify and netflix are commonly used by criminals to test stolen cards, and the pattern of transactions on yours fits the usual method to a tee.

Anyway, your primary case against Amex is the law. Pursue that to the fullest, its AMEX responsibility to prove the transaction was authorised by you, not for you to prove its not.



(normally I dont read long whinges that are full of fluff and emotion, this wasnt one of those, thanks for the entertainment)

What really interests me though is the use of a card that was withdrawn over six years ago. Neither the number nor the expiry date are valid. I get that recurring transactions will often continue to go through on old cards but this was a new transaction. (something can't be right in the way their processing systems are set up.....or the crims have found a way to bypass some of the security.) I want to continue to test this with Amex, as well a continue to challenge them on their fraud process. (I am in no doubt I will be credited for the transactions they don't have a leg to stand on....but I am interested in why they got themselves into this position.)
 
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Neither the number nor the expiry date are valid.

a new expiry number is easy to guess, at worst they would get it in about 24 goes :)
likely they are running scripts to test numbers until they get a hit.

They do also use random generated credit card numbers and test those as well. But yes, I agree with your main point, how the transaction wasnt rejected by AMEX at first is amusing. Its a fact that credit card numbers remain 'active' after a card is closed, expired or whatever for up to 6 months, to allow for merchants that lost their way. However your case, is just a bit longer than that!
 
Are you sure the account was really closed? I would have sworn that I closed my DJ's store card about 10 years ago and then a few months ago I got a letter saying it was being closed due to inactivity.
 
Are you sure the account was really closed? I would have sworn that I closed my DJ's store card about 10 years ago and then a few months ago I got a letter saying it was being closed due to inactivity.

Surely one would know from the additional annual fee ? Anyway it sounds like amex is going backwards in every area. Ill call it now, amex will reverse their points deval once people start leaving
 
So how does one get into the business of using withdrawn cards from years ago with expiry dates going back to Queen Victoria's reign to make brand spanking new transactions?

You are not alone.

A friend of mine, she saw some ad about free cosmetic samples just need to pay for delivery on Facebook, so she clicked, keyed her AmEx card number in. Then she remembered the saying about if it looks too good to be true. She called me and asked what should she do, so I told her to call AmEx and tell them exactly what happened. She called AmEx, AmEx said nothing to worried, killed the card, issued a new card with card number.

Of course, she was charged delivery fee, and a very high 'subscription fee' later on on her statement. She called AmEx, AmEx eventually rejected her dispute, saying delivery was completed. She argued that she asked for her card to be cancelled, so how could her account be charged for delivery and subscription fee later on? She went straight to FOS and AmEx backed down.

On the other hand, I had 5 Uber charges in my account 2 months ago, and they were all reversed within the same statement period by AmEx.

There does not seem to be any consistency with AmEx fraud handling.
 
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