AMEX not accepted or surcharge

[Dr Bob]

It's very obvious we have become very aggressive point collectors & are costing the providers big time hence the reduction / restriction on point collection monthly or PA over the past few years & hence the desire to go AMEX.
5 years ago I could effortlessly rake in over 400K points PA but now I work hard to get 250K. All without flying.

 

[Moopere]

It's very obvious we have become very aggressive point collectors & are costing the providers big time hence the reduction / restriction on point collection monthly or PA over the past few years & hence the desire to go AMEX.
5 years ago I could effortlessly rake in over 400K points PA but now I work hard to get 250K. All without flying.

I'm not sure. Maybe you are right. Seems to me that high FF points for businesses must mean that they are getting a high turnover and so long as their business model is right this sounds like a good thing to me - along of the lines of it being a good thing to pay more tax because you must be earning more

My suspicion on points capping is its an attempt to restrict business to business points earning. There must be a perceived flaw in the loyalty system which leads them to believe that businesses don't operate on a loyal level like retail consumers do and are essentially raking in billions of points as 'cream' that isn't having an effect of where the money actually flows.

 

[SOPOOR]

thats simple to explain

basically, when it comes to the average consumer, they make a lot of decisions based on a lot of factors such as price, convenience, reliability etc. etc.

however, when it comes to business, often the decision of which provider to use, or which restaurant to go to is often done without taking much into consideration, so basically unless the service is so bad that its that bad, the businesses will use the service regardless, and hence the ability to gain points and the benefits of them are far less appreciated or considered,

so in the long future it may come to a point where they say business expenditue gains NO points, a small minortiy of people will change and chuck up a stink but i think the majority won't even care!

eg I know a company that paid a contractor/agency approximately $250k for a secretary, the secretary was actually paid something like $40k , however the agency charged them $250k,

I explained to them that if they hired someone at $40k you could have had her for 6 years for the 1 year you paid for her!!!! the following year, they used the same agency and apparently thats how things are done, so for a typical company like this, a few thousand amex points is going to be a drop i nthe ocean!

 

[Moopere]

so in the long future it may come to a point where they say business expenditue gains NO points,

Its already the case that most credit cards of the consumer type have fine print saying 'not for business use'. Cards built specifically for business usually don't have any points.

However, its a hard thing to police. Who's to say whats business expenditure and whats businesslike, but ultimately private use? So, policing business use being a minefield, put a cap on the points gained.

The policy is probably only really aimed at massive corporates and government though. Small businesses, running up say 50 million a year or so, will just have a fistful of cards if they really want to play this game and will max them all.

I can't see the win for the card companies in cases like this? If say, bank/cc company X limits FF points to 10 million a year, then what do they honestly think the user is going to do when he hits that limit? Keep spending on that card? No, of course not, he'll move to another card with bank/cc company Y and company Y will gain business that they otherwise wouldn't gain, company X will lose the merchant fee for the next 10 million, etc ,etc.

Seems very short sighted to me.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

basically, when it comes to the average consumer, they make a lot of decisions based on a lot of factors such as price, convenience, reliability etc. etc.

however, when it comes to business, often the decision of which provider to use, or which restaurant to go to is often done without taking much into consideration

Are you serious?

 

[ma1trix]

Interesting news (and about time AMEX!!!!!). Did you hear this from the call centre, or another source?

Call centre.

 

[drron]

if I go to a restaurnt that either doesnt accept amex or charges something stupid

I will simply produce my visa/mc even though I get as low as 1/3 of the points of an amex,

and I think, oh well, ive had a good time, i just won't get as many points as I normally would, and to be honest, I don't spend more then $200 per 2 people so I potentially only lose 100 points, its not the end of the world, and yes, I am a very aggressive points collector,

in my early days, ive paid off all my familes bills and some friends large bills on credit card to accumulate points, ive gone to restaurants with 15 people , everyones paid cash while ive put it all on my card for the points! (embarassing to admit)

Doesn't everyone!:shock:

 

[Flashback]

Doesn't everyone!:shock:

Especially so at AFF/FT Do's

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Look, wouldn't it be easier to have a sticky thread where we all can list down all vendors that do accept AMEX and do not charge Surcharge.

That way, you are practically hurting where it matters.

The problem is one of list maintenance. If we just list stuff that works post after post, we end up with a 400 page thread which no-one can usefully get anything out of. Need a wiki or a benevolent poster who is willing to continually update their first post with new information as it comes up.

I've done just that! Thanks to both of your suggestions, and also input from Diesellife, I've made a Wiki that lists AMEX-accepting merchants by category within the various major cities (and also in the 'national' section for chains, telcos, hotels, etc). Where available, it also includes information about any minimum purchase amounts and AMEX surcharges.

The address is: http://chrisch.frihost.org. The site can be viewed without needing a username and password. If you have information that you would like to contribute to it, simply send me a PM on here with your email address, and an account (with editing privileges) will be created on the wiki for you.

I've added quite a bit of detail to the Brisbane, Brisbane Airport, Sydney Airport and national sections, and have also added a little information on Sydney too (but it would obviously benefit from contributions from those that live there).

Hopefully this leads to many more points coming your way over the coming months!

 

[Moopere]

The address is: http://chrisch.frihost.org.

Right. Good job. Now the challenge is to create a new post so that the address above is right at the top - otherwise it will be lost in the mass of posts here.

To kick off the change requests IGA in WA, or Perth at least, seem to be franchise owned and Amex acceptance is not guaranteed. The Super IGA in Bertram for example doesn't accept Amex.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Cheers I'll leave it to a mod to consider if promoting the link further on here would be appropriate - and short of that, I could always add it to this account as a signature.

I've added a note next to the IGA listing. If there are any other corrections or enhancements to be made from anyone on here, I would suggest sending them to me via PM on this board, so that this topic doesn't just become a list of Wiki corrections... Alternately, feel free to contact me for an account on the Wiki so that you can edit and enhance the content yourselves.

 

[aschmid]

Does anybody know how a business accounts for the surcharges they pass on to customers? (I mean in terms of financial accounting)

I am not an accountant but from my financial understanding if it's not itemised they could just write it off as a fixed cost of doing business, eg like electricity bill, etc.

However when you start to surcharge per item wouldn't that make it a variable cost of doing business and you'd have to work out the exact amount per item sold to account for it as cost of goods sold?

Wouldn't that be way to difficult and surely not worth the effort for any business? Or is the tax office just turning a blind eye on this?

 

[Flashback]

Does anybody know how a business accounts for the surcharges they pass on to customers? (I mean in terms of financial accounting)

I am not an accountant but from my financial understanding if it's not itemised they could just write it off as a fixed cost of doing business, eg like electricity bill, etc.

However when you start to surcharge per item wouldn't that make it a variable cost of doing business and you'd have to work out the exact amount per item sold to account for it as cost of goods sold?

Wouldn't that be way to difficult and surely not worth the effort for any business? Or is the tax office just turning a blind eye on this?

In most cases I've seen it's just added as a line item on the invoice. It can easily be tracked that way.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

In terms of accounting, you treat the charge as revenue - which you would usually assign to a specific account code. It is charged as a seperate line item - so instead of treating it as 'sales' or '(professional) services provided', you assign the amount received to a different account if you wish to track the amount of money seperately from sales figures. However, it is still treated as revenue by the ATO - otherwise retailers would start applying other individualised charges to cover electricity, staff time etc... Either way, as a winner for the business, the fees that they pay to setup & maintain a merchant facility (including transaction fees) are tax deductable - regardless of whether or not they pass this onto a customer as a surcharge.

 

[oz_mark]

In most cases I've seen it's just added as a line item on the invoice. It can easily be tracked that way.

That's what I've always seen as well.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Around this time last year, I recall a number of people looking for ways to buy Entertainment Books using AMEX. As the current book's discount offers are due to expire on June 1, many of the books for the upcoming year are now on sale, or soon will be. I've found you can order them through the Royal Institute of Blind and Deaf Children, and can use Amex (or Diners too) with no surcharge!

They sell all cities too - not just limited to Sydney. Their online store is https://wic007v.server-secure.com/vs20713_secure/products/list.cfm?category=Entertainment Books , or to order them via fax/mail, load up http://www.ridbc.org.au/pdf/form_entertainmentbooks.pdf

 

[pointsjunkie]

Doesn't everyone!:shock:

always!

 

[Mal]

OPSM don't accept Amex.

Very strange.

 

[medhead]

Not that many will go here, Casino Caltex branded servo* 2% on Amex. I was a bit annoyed that the guy blamed Amex Express (or something like that, I didn't hear properly) for adding the surcharge. But I had to be in Byron Bay so didn't bother arguing.

* as opposed to the woolworths caltex servo

 

[brha01]

Not that many will go here, Casino Caltex branded servo* 2% on Amex. I was a bit annoyed that the guy blamed Amex Express (or something like that, I didn't hear properly) for adding the surcharge. But I had to be in Byron Bay so didn't bother arguing.

* as opposed to the woolworths caltex servo

It is my experience that most/all caltex branded caltex servos charge for ALL credit card transactions- not just Amex. I avoid them all for this reason. I have also heard of a few other people who avoid because of this as well (who are 'normal' people- not nearly as religious about using credit cards for points as me). Makes me wonder how much business they are losing as a result of refusing to absorb a tiny amount in fees- especially when none of the competition has an issue absorbing them.