Airlines blaming each other [QF fails to inform EK of cancelled booking]

[Artorias]

Hi all,

New poster here. I wanted to share a set of circumstances with you. I am looking to resolve this through appropriate channels but keen to hear the community's thoughts / opinions.

My wife and I were due to fly to NZ from Australia on an Air NZ flight. Due to bad weather, this flight was cancelled. I subsequently booked a flexi fare through Qantas (operated by Emirates) for the first flight the next morning which set me back a fair few points. I booked a flexi in case the flight we were re-booked on by Air NZ was suitable (we needed to get there ASAP).

As it would happen, Air NZ booked us onto the same Emirates flight. I duly cancelled the Qantas booking and received confirmation to this effect. We checked in for the Emirates flight using the paperwork Air NZ had issued to us, and thought everything was well and good. After the trip, I realised Qantas was taking a long time to refund the points.

It turns out the Emirates check in staff had booked us onto the flight using the Qantas ticket coupons and not those issued by Air NZ - Qantas stated that they keep them active until refunds are issued, which can be 5 business days. As of today, Qantas is refusing to refund the points, saying the trip was made - despite the booking cancellation.

Qantas is saying that I need to seek compensation from Air NZ and Emirates. Air NZ is treating their still open ticket with Emirates as a no-show and won't be providing anything. Emirates is stating that Qantas should have suspended the coupons immediately after the booking was cancelled.

Who do you think is right or wrong here?

I am more or less resigned to the likely outcome which is me being out of pocket for the points used but will see where things land.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Do you have confirmation that you initiated a cancellation?

 

[Captain Halliday]

Welcome to AFF.

I feel very sorry for you. It’s a most unusual situation. Sadly I don’t have much practical advice.

But I can offer reassurance. We get lots of people join AFF to have a rant. Which is their right. But the inflammatory language and emotion doesn’t get good outcomes.

Your post is measured and the tone even. If you’ve taken that approach with the airlines I’m sure you’ll get a better result than going in all guns blazing.

You could try the Airline Consumer Advocate.

AFFers are really generous with their knowledge and I’m sure you’ll get some good advice.

 

[Artorias]

Do you have confirmation that you initiated a cancellation?

Thanks for the reply.

Yep, I took a screenshot of the web-page confirming the cancellation, which exhibited the booking reference etc. Qantas has also confirmed that a cancellation request was effected.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Thanks for the reply.

Yep, I took a screenshot of the web-page confirming the cancellation, which exhibited the booking reference etc. Qantas has also confirmed that a cancellation request was effected.

As mentioned, look up the Airline Customer Advocate and lodge a complaint there.

Ultimately the way I see it;
- Qantas received your cancellation and admitted to it. However the slow nature of their systems is not your fault as a consumer.
- Emirates staff saw your name on a booking and checked you in. Unfortunately for Qantas, this means they will pay Emirates for the ticket.
- Air NZ booked you on Emirates in good faith but you were a no show. Depending on their FIM agreement with Emirates, they've either paid or not paid for your seat - but it's rather irrelevant, they did everything right.

Ultimately no one did anything wrong, but you did everything right as a consumer and, as I said, I fail to see how you should be left responsible for Qantas' archaic system requiring 5 days to action a cancellation.

But that's just how I see it.

 

[Artorias]

Welcome to AFF.

I feel very sorry for you. It’s a most unusual situation. Sadly I don’t have much practical advice.

But I can offer reassurance. We get lots of people join AFF to have a rant. Which is their right. But the inflammatory language and emotion doesn’t get good outcomes.

Your post is measured and the tone even. If you’ve taken that approach with the airlines I’m sure you’ll get a better result than going in all guns blazing.

You could try the Airline Consumer Advocate.

AFFers are really generous with their knowledge and I’m sure you’ll get some good advice.

Thanks for your reply and for your kind words.

The ACA is one of the channels I am looking into. Unfortunately not much progress is being made with the airlines. They all recognise the unusual and unfortunate nature of the circumstances, but that's as far as they will go.

Which regrettably leaves me to pinball between them while fingers are pointed elsewhere!

As mentioned, look up the Airline Customer Advocate and lodge a complaint there.

Ultimately the way I see it;
- Qantas received your cancellation and admitted to it. However the slow nature of their systems is not your fault as a consumer.
- Emirates staff saw your name on a booking and checked you in. Unfortunately for Qantas, this means they will pay Emirates for the ticket.
- Air NZ booked you on Emirates in good faith but you were a no show. Depending on their FIM agreement with Emirates, they've either paid or not paid for your seat - but it's rather irrelevant, they did everything right.

Ultimately no one did anything wrong, but you did everything right as a consumer and, as I said, I fail to see how you should be left responsible for Qantas' archaic system requiring 5 days to action a cancellation.

But that's just how I see it.

Agreed, and thanks for the advice. I think it is a bit misleading that the ticket is still active despite a web-page stating that a booking has been cancelled. Otherwise I would have been minded to make sure the Emirates check-in staff were not using the Qantas issued ticket.

But ultimately it does appear to be a situation where no-one is directly to blame, leaving me in the position of needing one of the airlines to champion my cause - probably a naive hope!

 

[drron]

What a terrible situation.But the only airline that could be responsible is Qantas.Not your fault that they are inept.So the ACA is probably your best bet.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You had a duplicate ooking and the airline used the wrong booking. One that should have been cancelled.

In hindsight this could have been prevented by giving the booking reference/ticket number/copy of your itinerary you wanted to use for the flight when you got to check-in. This would have made it clear which ticket was going to be used. But not even I would not have thought of that at the time! (and in the age of e-tickets not many of would print out the itinerary for a simple flight like this)

I can confirm bookings might 'linger' in the system, and perhaps even appear valid for travel. I completely changed airlines a couple weeks ago, new ticket issued (by the original airline, to another airline), was a no-show for the first flight of the original booking but still got sent a reminder to check-in for the second flight of the itinerary (despite cancellation and no-show).

It would seem pretty clear-cut that this is a QF mistake. You cancelled the booking. You have confirmation you cancelled the booking. QF did not act on that in time. The existence of the duplicate booking caused the error (although it was a 50/50 chance)

I can't see NZ or EK being on the hook for this. As a contractual issue QF will need to sort it out by giving you back your points and just writing this off at their end. This is something their legal department will need to look at - it goes above and beyond anything call centre agents should be expected to know or be trained to deal with.

The ACA will probably be the one to get this through to the right department (legal) for you. you could also call Consumer Affairs for advice, or if all esle fails, this would seem appropriate for a small claims case.

 

[serfty]

For more on the Airline Cutomer Advocate, see here:

The Airline Customer Advocate (ACA)

Note that of the three carriers, only Qantas subscribe.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Note that of the three carriers, only Qantas subscribe.

Fortunately I think that's going to be the only one that matters.

Can't see how the other airlines would be responsible. If EK somehow mucked up and reactivated a cancelled booking, I would think that would be for QF to sort out with EK to get their money back.

 

[I love to travel]

Just a thought but with multiple live bookings you have double paid things like departure tax which I don’t think NZ government would view well.. This might help somewhat in your argument with Qantas. Good luck feel for you.

 

[JohnK]

Awful situation and as usual looks like Qantas processes at fault again. Hope you get the resolution you want.

 

[ftm]

Definitely QF at fault here. There is a difference between cancellation and refund too, which they are blurring.

Cancellation is the cancelling of the flights in the PNR. The cancellation should happen straight away, because otherwise the seats are blocked from sale. Cancelling them releases them back to be resold. There is no way QF yield would allow a process that takes 5 days to release a cancelled seat.

A refund is the process of getting the ticket refunded. While it shouldn't take 5 days, we would do it at the same time as the cancellation, QF obviously has a longer less efficient process.

So I'd keep pushing QF. It's their fault.

 

[blackcat20]

In hindsight this could have been prevented by giving the booking reference/ticket number/copy of your itinerary you wanted to use for the flight when you got to check-in. This would have made it clear which ticket was going to be used. But not even I would not have thought of that at the time! (and in the age of e-tickets not many of would print out the itinerary for a simple flight like this)

The OP states that they did use the NZ paperwork to check in, so the check in agent has got it wrong there.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Definitely QF at fault here. There is a difference between cancellation and refund too, which they are blurring.

Cancellation is the cancelling of the flights in the PNR. The cancellation should happen straight away, because otherwise the seats are blocked from sale. Cancelling them releases them back to be resold. There is no way QF yield would allow a process that takes 5 days to release a cancelled seat.

A refund is the process of getting the ticket refunded. While it shouldn't take 5 days, we would do it at the same time as the cancellation, QF obviously has a longer less efficient process.

So I'd keep pushing QF. It's their fault.

Not necessarily. As it was an EK flight, they would have to get involved with EK - it's quite possible the action of cancelling in the website triggers the cancellation (or "request" as QF may put it) to be queued for manual intervention.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not necessarily. As it was an EK flight, they would have to get involved with EK - it's quite possible the action of cancelling in the website triggers the cancellation (or "request" as QF may put it) to be queued for manual intervention.

It should be no different to any other travel agent scenario. Qantas was acting, in this case, as an agent for EK. Cancelling with QF would be deemed cancelling with EK.

If there was some sort of delay for manual assessment, this should not be relevant to the passenger. If this delay causes some sort of loop-hole (as experienced by the OP), that is a business cost the airline has decided to accept.

 

[Must...Fly!]

It should be no different to any other travel agent scenario. Qantas was acting, in this case, as an agent for EK. Cancelling with QF would be deemed cancelling with EK.

If there was some sort of delay for manual assessment, this should not be relevant to the passenger. If this delay causes some sort of loop-hole (as experienced by the OP), that is a business cost the airline has decided to accept.

As per my post above, QF's systems are not the fault of the consumer and in this case, the consumer has done everything right...

 

[ftm]

Not necessarily. As it was an EK flight, they would have to get involved with EK - it's quite possible the action of cancelling in the website triggers the cancellation (or "request" as QF may put it) to be queued for manual intervention.

There should be no manual intevention in the cancellation. All online booking systems cancel immediately and cancelling QF cancels with EK at the same time. For the refund I can understand a manual process, but not the cancellation. That would be archaic if it were manual !

 

[JohnK]

Not necessarily. As it was an EK flight, they would have to get involved with EK - it's quite possible the action of cancelling in the website triggers the cancellation (or "request" as QF may put it) to be queued for manual intervention.

This Qantas manual intervention issue needs to be addressed.

I cancelled my daughters award flight on the weekend and no sign of refund of points or taxes. The cancellation should have been done at the time of my call. I shouldn't have to follow up for refund.

 

[Artorias]

Hi all,

Thanks very much for all your responses and advice; this has been most helpful. I have a good sense of the avenues which are available.

Broadly consensus appears to be that the cancellation should have been made effective by Qantas, and but for this issue no other loss would have taken place. Interestingly, despite the Qantas website being quite clear on this (Your booking has been cancelled), they appear quite averse to being as clear cut (You requested a full refund from the website / A request to cancel was initiated).

Not sure how this will pan out but will keep you posted.

Thanks again.