Airline Security (another myth)

[Soundguy]

I thought this article in The Atlantic was well worth the read.

Quote: “Counter*terrorism in the airport is a show designed to make people feel better...." - couldn't be a truer statement IMO. I liked the bit about the "Osama bin Laden, Hero of Islam T-shirt" and the Hezbollah flag.

Want fake boarding passes? No problem! Platinum status? Done.

Jeffrey Goldberg arrives at the same conclusion I have held for some time - airline security will only catch a really stupid terrorist. One could argue that fortunately many of them are of course!

 

[toowongman]

I thought this article in The Atlantic was well worth the read.

Quote: “Counter*terrorism in the airport is a show designed to make people feel better...." - couldn't be a truer statement IMO. I liked the bit about the "Osama bin Laden, Hero of Islam T-shirt" and the Hezbollah flag.

Want fake boarding passes? No problem! Platinum status? Done.

Jeffrey Goldberg arrives at the same conclusion I have held for some time - airline security will only catch a really stupid terrorist. One could argue that fortunately many of them are of course!

Airport security in Australia is a total joke. The only way to have any degree of effective protection is to screen/xray at the departure gate doorway before a sealed walkway to the aircraft.

 

[medhead]

Airport screening is only a joke because of what thye try to stop. moving the location of the screening will not make it safer. They will still let you through with pens or pencils (i.e. pointy things), or glass bottles (i.e. can be smashed and made into pointy things), socks, soap, coins, electrical cables and etc. All things that can be made into weapons.

I didn't get the idea of the hezobollah flag or osama t-shirt. Not exactly weapons. More like signs of being an offensive dill. So they didn't arrest him for being offensive. Big deal.

 

[Soundguy]

I didn't get the idea of the hezobollah flag or osama t-shirt. Not exactly weapons. More like signs of being an offensive dill. So they didn't arrest him for being offensive. Big deal.

If you read the article his point was to deliberatly act suspiciously and see how security reacted ie would they investigate him more? Pretty funny lengths he went to, all to no avail.

As someone trained (by the government) in the use of high energy materials I always considered this aspect of the screening very weak. I doubt they would know what to look for if you waived it under their noses, besides the fact that there are other fundamental and fairly easily exploitable flaws in their screening approach unfortunately.

 

[medhead]

If you read the article his point was to deliberatly act suspiciously and see how security reacted ie would they investigate him more? Pretty funny lengths he went to, all to no avail.

That's my point, a non-arab looking person with a hezoballah flag or osama t-shirt is not suspicious. It's either a misguided idiot trying to make a statement, or a misguided idiot trying to wind you up, or a journalist (idiot) trying to get arrested along with a free prostate check to write a story about how the TSA are naz_s.

See the common thread, an idiot involved at all stages. Personally, I don't find it funny when an idiot writes a step by step guide on how to exploit weaknesses in airport security. It certainly won't help the committed terrorist. But it will help someone who is angry enough to do something if only they can get past security.

 

[Soundguy]

That's my point, a non-arab looking person with a hezoballah flag or osama t-shirt is not suspicious.

....well except for the fact that the most dangerous ones here in the west (and especially in England) are the recent converts to the RoP - which are generally white, non-Arab looking persons of course. A certain Hick comes to mind here, with more brains he would have been quite dangerous. But I take your point that such articles are not helpful unless the outcome is that the security actually lift their game a bit.

 

[ejb]

Hi,

I had a similar experience last week on SYD-PER flight.

Early monday morning half asleep I arrive at the airport after throwing my gear into a carryon bag. Left nail clippers in bag by mistake and lost these at check point.

Boarding plane standing behind woman with 2 three foot high trophies made of metal (I think) and wood. I thought WTF and mentioned to QF staff that this was stupid and was told that the trophies were not a banned item.

The damage someone could do with these items would be much greater that my nail clippers yet I lose them.

ejb

 

[NM]

The damage someone could do with these items would be much greater that my nail clippers yet I lose them.

But don't you feel so much safer knowing the guy sitting next to you on the plane will not able to nibble his way through the flight deck security door with a pair of nail clippers

 

[anat0l]

Boarding plane standing behind woman with 2 three foot high trophies made of metal (I think) and wood. I thought WTF and mentioned to QF staff that this was stupid and was told that the trophies were not a banned item.

The damage someone could do with these items would be much greater that my nail clippers yet I lose them.

ejb

Don't you start!

• The pen in my pocket?
• A plastic fork is as deadly as a metal one.
• How about using my shoe lace as a garotte?
• Scalding someone with the hot coffee or tea?

Need I continue?

Of course, humans are stupid. If there wasn't someone who tried to put copious amounts of liquid together to create a bomb and bring this on board, we wouldn't have liquid restrictions.

 

[ethernet]

Add packing tape to the banned list - might tape up something. I was very cross - it was not sharp or pointy, and nothing on the signs.
Better my stuff, than 'smartetape' that is an $8 piece of plastic string.
Furthermore I asked for an exception - someone empowered to make a decision, and told no. That was after being swabbed to explosives or the like. Crazy superglue was ok. Lets hope the pommie with the macrame string shirt, or some ethnic with a turban gets confiscated - as clearly those are higher risk items :mrgreen:

Going back 20 years, my handluggage from HK was full of knives and cleavers, and they just smiled, fished them out, put them in a buff envelope, and said to pick them up at the luggage counter, as they would go in the coughpit or the like. I did. Thus flying is less civil than it was 20 years ago. Yes it is all security theatre.

But I noticed a metal detector screener was on the ball, and used his beady senses. The security that you dont see is the effective stuff,

 

[Commuter]

I thought this article in The Atlantic was well worth the read.

“Counter*terrorism in the airport is a show designed to make people feel better...."

When I am requested to pay for my excess baggage because they forgot that I'm entitled to extra 15kg, I feel as if I am getting terrorised at the check-in counter... (= counter terrorism).

Bad joke aside, Australian airport security don't want eyebrow tweezers in hand luggage. Even the rather strict English airport security don't mind not-so-sharp tweezers in my hand luggage!

Also shouldn't they ban glass bottles if they don't want tweezers? They can be turned into far more dangerous weapons than a pair of tweezers.

 

[edwardaggie98]

That article is fascinating. Thanks for posting. It's ridiculous the amount of "cosmetics" that goes on to make everyone feel safe - but very little done to actually make us safe.

Common sense usually prevails, but...

 

[Will]

This article was based, in large part, on an interview with Bruce Schneier, a security expert who has this excellent blog:
Schneier on Security

He has been running a campaign for improved airline security, and elimination of security theatre, for years.

Well worth adding it to your daily blog list.

 

[Skyring]

But I noticed a metal detector screener was on the ball, and used his beady senses. The security that you dont see is the effective stuff,

Too right. Looking out for guys "acting hinky" is a good way to have a chance of finding trouble-makers. That's one reason why there are always customs and immigration people standing around apparently not doing much, and other eyes on the security cameras covering those areas.

What's that stuff that explodes if you put it in water? Sodium? Stash a lump of that in your backpack, and just add water. I don't think they screen for sodium.

Nailclippers and shampoo and making you take off your shoes is rubbish. If your plan depends on nailclippers and they take them off you nine times out of ten, your dastardly plan will succeed on the tenth attempt.

 

[Skyring]

This article was based, in large part, on an interview with Bruce Schneier, a security expert who has this excellent blog:
Schneier on Security

He has been running a campaign for improved airline security, and elimination of security theatre, for years.

Well worth adding it to your daily blog list.

Will, you'll notice a couple of thoughts from Schneier in my post. I hearty endorse him. He knows security backwards and inside out. His "Applied Cryptography" is required reading in the computer security industry. He regularly exposes frauds in the crypto industry and he is utterly scathing on the TSA.

One thing he points out is that if air travel security was made airtight, the baddies would find another place to attack. Like bombs on trains. You go through security to get onto a packed commuter train? No. Stop a packed train in a tunnel and set fire to it, you've got hundreds dead.

 

[Will]

Too right. Looking out for guys "acting hinky" is a good way to have a chance of finding trouble-makers. That's one reason why there are always customs and immigration people standing around apparently not doing much, and other eyes on the security cameras covering those areas.

It's ok. TSA has trained 1000s of people in this (they call them BDOs - behaviour detection officers ).

What's that stuff that explodes if you put it in water? Sodium? Stash a lump of that in your backpack, and just add water. I don't think they screen for sodium.

Elemental sodium and other group I metals (eg Potassium, Lithium) do combust in water, but they are unstable in air (need to be stored in oil or similar) and the explosion wouldn't be strong enough to destroy a plane (maybe to decompress if done next to the window).

Nailclippers and shampoo and making you take off your shoes is rubbish. If your plan depends on nailclippers and they take them off you nine times out of ten, your dastardly plan will succeed on the tenth attempt.

Exactly right. There are two classes of contraband:
1. Really dangerous stuff eg guns, explosives, machetes
2. Bull**** banned stuff eg shampoo, nailclippers, water bottles

If you try to smuggle class 1 contraband in, you will be hauled over the coals and probably imprisoned. If you try class 2, they just throw it in the bin and send you on your way.
Class 1 contraband detection has a deterrent effect, whereas class 2 is useless - if you get caught with it, just try again. Don't even need to catch another flight - just leave the sterile zone, get some more from your associate, and attempt to clear security with it again.

 

[Soundguy]

I once asked a screener operating the ion scan machine what happens if he gets a trace positive reading. His reply indicated that it would be a big deal and they would pull all your bags off the flight. And then what I asked.....? He had no idea. And if I had the necessary permission to use the particular compound detected? Again, he had no idea at all. Didn't sound like he ever had a positive reading.

And I like the dopey way they show you everything they are doing right down to the list of explosives they are searching for. The first time I saw that I observed that it was only nitrogen based explosives being scanned for & I imediately thought of a couple of other types that wouldn't be detected at all with this system. But since then I have noticed they have upgraded their scanner locally so that it now detects a much wider range of materials (which they still conveniently show you a list of).

These guys really need to do it properly and get some lessons from the Israelis - or drop the whole charade.

 

[ronone69]

I travel a lot. Hey I am in BKK at the moment. I have been through hundreds of security checkpoint. I wear almost the same type clothes ie shirt and long pants and New Balance runners and a belt every time I travel.

Some places the belt lights up the sensors - others it does not. Once even a piece of steel in the shoes lit up the sensors.

So wow, they caught my shoes !!!

Traveling in and out of AUS we have plastic cutlery. Not even domestic travel in the US has plastic cutlery (unless you are in coach). Traveling out of the UK and Asia (where most of the terrorist reside) you have steel cutlery. Who are we trying to kid ?

Security seems to forget that on a plane there is so much steel, metal and glass that could be used by a terrorist. This is what is really frightening. You are right - most terrorist are pretty dumb - they haven't figured this out yet.

If someone with half a brain wanted is to hijack a plane the forks, palstic knives, wine bottles, soft drink cans etc etc are far more dangerous than any pair of nail clippers - yet we confiscate the nail clippers !!!

Airline security is simply a joke. There is no such thing. and this is what is really frightening.

 

[drron]

I agree ronone69.On our recent trip we had 23 segments so 23 brushes with security.I was wearing a new knee brace with a small titanium insert.It set off the machines only at JFK and LHR.At JFK the TSA just pated down the knee,felt the brace and insert and everything was fine.At LHR it was wait here sir.Then 2 agents came over and escorted me to a room-you can feel the eyes on you.There i was made to drop my trousers.Obviously the flight was safer for it.

 

[ronone69]

Just let me add:

One of my sons broke his leg a couple of years ago. The doctor inserted a metal plate in his leg. We traveled to the US. We took XRays to show the dills on security in the US

It did not set off 1 metal detector !!!!