Air Traffic Control Issues

[MEL_Traveller]

Interesting article in The Times. Excerpts from it:
The air traffic control failure that grounded more than 2,000 flights earlier this week was caused by a military aircraft entering flight data into the system, according to a report.
More than 330,000 passengers travelling to and from UK airports faced disruption as a result of the four-hour system shutdown at National Air Traffic Services (Nats) on Tuesday.
Three days after the system failure, airline schedules were back to normal. Travellers will not receive compensation because the shutdown will probably be considered “extraordinary circumstances” under passenger rights rules, according to the CAA.
The Ministry of Defence said. “We do not believe there’s any indication of an error on the part of the military. This is subject to the live Nats investigation, so it’d be inappropriate for us to comment further while that’s ongoing.

Air traffic meltdown ‘caused by military jet’s flight plan’

Sources said the data entry led to a shutdown of the National Air Traffic Services system, grounding 2,000 flights, in an echo of similar chaos in 2023

www.thetimes.com

Pax won’t receive compensation, but airlines still had to provide duty of care… accommodation, meals, re-routing at earliest opportunity… which may have involved other carriers (although perhaps unlikely since everything would be full).

I’d expect the airlines to be seeking those costs from the responsible party.

 

[SYD]

Interesting article in The Times. Excerpts from it:
The air traffic control failure that grounded more than 2,000 flights earlier this week was caused by a military aircraft entering flight data into the system, according to a report.
More than 330,000 passengers travelling to and from UK airports faced disruption as a result of the four-hour system shutdown at National Air Traffic Services (Nats) on Tuesday.
Three days after the system failure, airline schedules were back to normal. Travellers will not receive compensation because the shutdown will probably be considered “extraordinary circumstances” under passenger rights rules, according to the CAA.
The Ministry of Defence said. “We do not believe there’s any indication of an error on the part of the military. This is subject to the live Nats investigation, so it’d be inappropriate for us to comment further while that’s ongoing.

Air traffic meltdown ‘caused by military jet’s flight plan’

Sources said the data entry led to a shutdown of the National Air Traffic Services system, grounding 2,000 flights, in an echo of similar chaos in 2023

www.thetimes.com

The article is wrong. We already have a link to a portal to claim costs from BA.

A shed load of costs and anything above that will be via TI ie the two nights paid for but not enjoyed currently…

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The article is wrong. We already have a link to a portal to claim costs from BA.

A shed load of costs and anything above that will be via TI ie the two nights paid for but not enjoyed currently…

The article is behind a paywall… but from what was quoted it is correct in saying pax will not receive compensation. As it’s a UK-based paper they are referring to compensation under UK261. Which won’t apply.

Airlines that did not provide their duty of care could receive claims from passengers who made their own arrangements.

 

[k_sheep]

Transited through LHR on Thursday - incoming was delayed 45 mins, outgoing 2 hours. But staff being very helpful.

 

[Seat0B]

But staff being very helpful.

I think that’s a first for LHR!!

 

[Flyfrequently]

Just had update from fam who were inconvenienced by the National ATC issue, last week - they made it to the motogp in time and enjoyed it immensely.
Their luggage arrived - a week later @SYD

 

[SYD]

Just had update from fam who were inconvenienced by the National ATC issue, last week - they made it to the motogp in time and enjoyed it immensely.
Their luggage arrived - a week later @SYD

Yes, I can only imagine LHR was orders of magnitude more chaotic than LGW.

Still, BA had luggage from ALL cancelled flights returned to the same belt. Basically flight by flight, so not a complete jumble but at least we got our bags there and then, but after about 2hrs waiting…by then surge pricing was in play for hotels. Still kicking myself I didn’t book sooner.

 

[Quickstatus]

What about closing SYD airport during curfew hours?.

Would that assist the shortage issue?

 

[markis10]

What about closing SYD airport during curfew hours?.

Would that assist the shortage issue?

Yes, there should be zero movements between 2300 and 0600 in a few weeks time .

 

[Melburnian1]

Yes, there should be zero movements between 2300 and 0600 in a few weeks time .

Wouldn't air ambulances still need to use SYD during 2300 to 0600?

It's closer to most major hospitals than WSI.

 

[markis10]

Wouldn't air ambulances still need to use SYD during 2300 to 0600?

It's closer to most major hospitals than WSI.

I am talking RPT/Freight, ambos don’t need ATC and already operate outside curfew limitations

 

[Quickstatus]

Wouldn't air ambulances still need to use SYD during 2300 to 0600?

Sorry i was not clear
There are several types of ATC

(a1)Tower control controlling landing and take off at airports
(a2)Ground control -who also operate in the "tower"

(b) Approach control

(c) Enroute control

Closing Tower would not mean there is no ATC control over the Sydney Basin.

I am thinking that in circumstances where ATC is very short, one possibility is to close Tower in curfew- but this is more of a roster rearrangement and might not solve the last minute sickies.

 

[SYD]

Dont forget there are several types of ATC

(a1)Tower control controlling landing and take off at airports
(a2)Ground control

(b) Approach control

(c) Enroute control

Closing Tower would not mean there is no ATC control over the Sydney Basin.

I am thinking that in circumstances where ATC is very short, one possibility is to close Tower in curfew- but this is more of a roster rearrangement and might not solve the last minute sickies.

I’ve forgotten where the divide between Air Services Australia MEL and BNE lies but from memory isn’t the airspace over SYD actually managed from near MEL?

I defer to the experts at what point there’s handoff to SYD for aircraft heading there and summarily those taken off and on route?

 

[Quickstatus]

I’ve forgotten where the divide between Air Services Australia MEL and BNE lies but from memory isn’t the airspace over SYD actually managed from near MEL?

I think you are referring to Enroute control
There are 2 FIR managed by 2 AirTraffic Sevrvice centres -Melbourne and Brisbane (apart from the Military)
Melbourne Control manage Enroute airspace over Sydney basin

But when OneSky is implemented, the 2 FIR will be merged into one - and the entire Australian Enroute airspace will be managed by Melbourne Centre.

 

[markis10]

I’ve forgotten where the divide between Air Services Australia MEL and BNE lies but from memory isn’t the airspace over SYD actually managed from near MEL?

I defer to the experts at what point there’s handoff to SYD for aircraft heading there and summarily those taken off and on route?

Tower looks after airspace from the harbour to royal national park and out west to over Bankstown up to 1500/2000 feet. Arrivals/Departures are handled from a seperate unit the controls down to Wollongong/Marulan, up to Katoomba and around to the hunter valley.

 

[SYD]

I think you are referring to Enroute control
There are 2 FIR managed by 2 AirTraffic Sevrvice centres -Melbourne and Brisbane (apart from the Military)
Melbourne Control manage Enroute airspace over Sydney basin

But when OneSky is implemented, the 2 FIR will be merged into one - and the entire Australian Enroute airspace will be managed by Melbourne Centre.



View attachment 521795

Yes. In a past life I had some peripheral involvement In OneSky.