Air New Zealand ends alliance with Virgin Australia [goes with Qantas]

[oz_mark]

VA has 737 fleet capable of transferring from domestic to trans-tasman. NZ has a domestic fleet that for the most part can't make that transition.

I didn't say it was simple or easy, just that VA is better placed to cover a smaller country like NZ better than NZ can cover Australia.

Interesting to ponder what NZ have in mind with Australian domestic connections. Probably still maintain a codeshare on VA.

 

[BAM1748]

Product wise, VA has been applying pressure to QF.

Imagine the state of Business class in Australia if VA hadn't come along...

We'll have to disagree. You think VA has a better product than QF?

VA was, some say still is, a LCC and only came along with business at the expense of Ansett. Don't forget VA just can't seem to make any money.

 

[dk4]

As far as I can see, things are just going back to quite similar to how they were when - Pacific Blue, Air NZ & Qantas all competed across the Tasman... the main difference this time is that -
* Virgin Australia Group now goes to market with a differentiated two brand strategy (where as before, Pacific Blue and Virgin Blue were basically the same product with different names),
* VA has J class seats on their single aisle jet aircraft (and NZ has removed theirs),
* VA doesn't currently operate a small domestic NZ network, like Pacific Blue did.

 

[oz_mark]

We'll have to disagree. You think VA has a better product than QF?

VA was, some say still is, a LCC and only came along with business at the expense of Ansett. Don't forget VA just can't seem to make any money.

No. I am saying the Qantas product is better than it would have been if there was no VA.

Remember what QF thought they could get away with for the domestic A330 business class. That's what you'll have if there is no VA.

 

[TheInsider]

No. I am saying the Qantas product is better than it would have been if there was no VA.

Remember what QF thought they could get away with for the domestic A330 business class. That's what you'll have if there is no VA.

Excluding that aircraft type, you fail to mention the 737 and 717s, which pretty much are the domestic fleet.

 

[Bagpuss]

A few facts:

Joining Skyteam isn't going to help Virgin on the Tasman market. The only alliance which will help is Star Alliance to regain access to Air New Zealand. (Emirates are not an alliance member)
Following the demise of Virgin Samoa, Virgin have a "spare" airframe from it's maniline fleet
Virgin wont go bust due to this. They existed prior to their entry into international services and an airline can exist just being a domestic airlines
Virgin will continue to fly to New Zealand from Australia

Things to remember / consider:

There is the potential (highly likely) Virgin will codeshare on the SQ services (which will include Melbourne - Wellington .. think that's the new routing)
There is the potential to still have an interline agreement
There is the potential for Tiger to do some NZ domestic flying (IE: Brisbane > Auckland > Wellington > Auckland > Brisbane)
There is the potential (a long shot) for Virgin to codeshare on Qantas services in New Zealand (IE, you fly on Virgin metal and then Qantas) (It could make sense to both airlines)
There maybe the potential to use VARA F100 fleet / Alliance partnership where it makes sense (if the aircraft have the range)
There is the potential for Virgin to use 3rd party lounges OR to work with airport operators to build "independent lounges" (such as Darwin International)

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

Excluding that aircraft type, you fail to mention the 737 and 717s, which pretty much are the domestic fleet.

What's your point?

 

[TheInsider]

What's your point?

It wasn't necessarily due to competition that QF changed their A330's, it was due to them using them on international services more often and a change in direction.

 

[basso]

A weak competitor is better than no competitor.

Qantas as a monopoly would be a terrible situation to be in....

 

[AviationNZ]

There is the potential (a long shot) for Virgin to codeshare on Qantas services in New Zealand (IE, you fly on Virgin metal and then Qantas) (It could make sense to both airlines)

Ummmm, Qantas don't operate in NZ, only JQ.

 

[alviau]

We cannot allow VA to fail....we need them to keep Qf competitive and price sensitive. Can you imagine QF without VA keeping it in check?

Agree so much. Remember the poor business class seats QF introduced on their A330 just before VA rebranded and introduced their own A330 with a better product (and that was the ex Emirates ac)? It forced QF to go back to the drawing board, and even blocking out the middle seats.

 

[Bagpuss]

Ummmm, Qantas don't operate in NZ, only JQ.

Qantas / Jetstar "same thing"

 

[AviationNZ]

Qantas / Jetstar "same thing"

Pretty different in my books, but everyone has their own opinion!!

 

[Bagpuss]

Pretty different in my books, but everyone has their own opinion!!

I said "same thing" as I thought both were operated by JetConnect.

I didn't know Jetstar are now using their own crew.

But Qantas is still JetConnect.

... So "same but different" ..

 

[serfty]

Jet connect operated Qantas NZ last decade. When Jetstar came in, Jetconnect stopped operating domestically and began to operate the tran tasman flights. I do not believe that at any stage has Jetconnect operated Jetstar services in NZ (although some staff may have switched companies).

 

[dajop]

I didn't know Jetstar are now using their own crew.

Actually some of the NZ domestic services (Dash 8) are operated by Eastern Australian .. "

Operated by: Eastern Australia Airlines for Jetstar Airways

 

[BAM1748]

No. I am saying the Qantas product is better than it would have been if there was no VA.

Remember what QF thought they could get away with for the domestic A330 business class. That's what you'll have if there is no VA.

I never had an issue with the 330 other than I prefer Boeing anyway, seemed fine to me.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think we can banter on about this until the cows come home ... and I guess we will

Putting some thought into this, there **is** scope to utilize an a330, at least overnight considering, at the least Melbourne and Auckland are 24/7 hour airports. Also, I'm pretty sure 1 or 2 idle on Saturday's.
If they can get bums on seats in business class and also not forgetting cargo loads it's a possibility.

Also, it could be the issue that forces Virgin's arm on a domestic J class upgrade on the B737's ... at least for a few dedicated aircraft.

 

[BAM1748]

No. I am saying the Qantas product is better than it would have been if there was no VA.

Remember what QF thought they could get away with for the domestic A330 business class. That's what you'll have if there is no VA.

With no VA there might still be a another player in the market, if QF keep the pressure on then VA will never make a profit which keeps any improvement they want to make in check.

 

[Bagpuss]

Surprised, thought there would have been some New Zealand specials in Happy Hour today. Unfortunately not.