Aeroflot flight crash lands in Moscow

jb747

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I'd take the 'fire on board' comment with a lot of salt.

It was not on fire before it landed. The landing bounces a number of times. Bounces get worse, with each successive touchdown being much harder, until the landing gear fails. Fire starts then.
 

Hvr

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The plane is bouncing in footage here:

 

Quickstatus

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Story evolves with rising death toll possibly exacerbated by passengers taking hand luggage and slow arrival of fire trucks.

Evac seemed slow via 2 front slides. 37 of 78 survived. Evacuation of 37 took apparently 55 seconds - about 18 each side = 0.3 passenger per sec

The Airbus certification test was 873 passengers via 8 slides in 90 sec. = 1.2 passenger per sec
 
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OATEK

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Most of the discussion I have seen in the last day or so has focussed on pax taking their hand luggage down and out, preventing others from escaping.
 

jb747

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Most of the discussion I have seen in the last day or so has focussed on pax taking their hand luggage down and out, preventing others from escaping.

Everyone associated with the industry has always said that such actions would ultimately lead to loss of life. I wonder if, in this case, it will become a case of 'how many'....

Looking at the images, it's hard to imagine how anyone would even consider luggage, and yet I recall members on here saying that they would take their luggage.
 

Ewing

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Everyone associated with the industry has always said that such actions would ultimately lead to loss of life. I wonder if, in this case, it will become a case of 'how many'....

Looking at the images, it's hard to imagine how anyone would even consider luggage, and yet I recall members on here saying that they would take their luggage.

If you take your luggage and people lose their lives regardless of if it's directly attributable or not, in my opinion you should be charged with manslaughter. When I fly anything I might need if I evacuate is already in my pockets (wallet, phone, passport) during the critical stages of flight. Everything else can stay.

Belongings are replaceable. Lives are not.

I cannot comprehend the selfishness and sheer disregard for others by people who do this.
 

Duffa

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Couple of things.

JB was gracious enough to not criticise the pilots for miscalculating their approach due to the excess landing weight/speed.
For me that was inexcusable.

Secondly, the doors were open within 3 seconds of standstill and the first punters were on terra firma in less than 8. Kudos to Aeroflot cabin crew.

Thirdly, the d"cks who jumped out with their 15kg hand luggage ought to be charged with manslauther
 

p--and--t

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Not sure if same model of plane/same crash I read some reports where people calling for a Russian model of plane to be grounded permanently after a very recent crash in Russia as they spend a lot of time on the ground in workshops constantly having repairs.
 

jb747

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JB was gracious enough to not criticise the pilots for miscalculating their approach due to the excess landing weight/speed.
For me that was inexcusable.

I’m not sure how heavy it could actually have been. Surely a Superjet can’t carry all that much fuel in the first place.

Dumping was mentioned, but as best I can tell the Superjet is one of many types that do not have this capability. And in that case you’d expect overweight landings to have been something done in training in the sims.

Miscalculation is the wrong word. Misjudging is more appropriate. Their approach speed is higher, sink rate higher, and there is more inertia to arrest. So, the flare has to be started earlier. It’s not a huge issue if it’s something you’ve practiced, but out of the blue there would be a fair chance of getting it wrong. I recently saw a video of a QF 787 that turned back to London, and apparently did not dump its fuel prior to landing, and that landing was a bit of a shocker. That would have been a totally financial decision, which I do consider foolish.

Anyway there’s a fair chance of thumping it in. But, the inexcusable bit comes immediately afterwards. There is a well known bounce cycle in aviation, in which the aircraft bounces, is forced back on to the ground and hits even harder, and bounces again. It is mostly seen in light aircraft, and invariably ends in an arrival that is so hard that it removes the undercarriage. You’re supposed to take high bounces around, and the failure to do so is the trigger for all of this.

Historically, we did overweight landings in the occasional 767-200 sim. It couldn’t dump, but the -300 could. I don’t recall ever doing one on the 747. In the 380 they were practiced quite a lot. That was because it couldn’t actually dump enough of the fuel to get to max landing weight, but also because it had so much, that even if you could dump, it may take longer than you wanted to be flying. We did let the autopilot do it if possible, but, as it’s a sim, dropping an autopilot stuff up in to the mix was also likely. A QF380 did a manual overweight landing in Sydney a few years ago, after a flap issue on departure. It was beautiful to watch.
 
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