Advice needed: award flight cancellation and knock on issues.

[JohnM]

Doing a little research, if I can get onto QF9

I'm wondering how easy this would be? I'm guessing that award availability is limited on QF9. Are you still WP; do you subscribe to EF? (if not, I do); is there any I bucket availability if no U?

 

[Daver6]

I'm wondering how easy this would be? I'm guessing that award availability is limited on QF9. Are you still WP; do you subscribe to EF? (if not, I do); is there any I bucket availability if no U?

Yes WP still. Not U though. I'm hoping that if it comes to getting a spot of QF9 that being both a WP and the fact I'm being screwed here will hopefully be enough. However, would rather go via SYD, enjoy the F lounge followed by the Q-Suites.

The lady I spoke to at QF actually brought up the topic of getting J seats released on QF9. Decided to hold fire until AY responds.

What will be annoying if I do change to QF9 is only a few days before the AY flight cancellation I had coughed up 10k points to change to go via SYD. I wonder what my chances of getting that back might be.

 

[JohnM]

The reason why I asked if you could see fare bucket availability using EF is that if there is I availability, then as a WP you have a good chance they would be released as award seats.

 

[equus]

Hmm, the Amex policy does have a "Special Event" clause too (and in fact will pay $5k for alternative travel arrangements). Question is, does a cruise qualify?

Guess it wouldn't hurt to try!

The only problem with that is that the Special Event clause also comes with a specific exclusion (because it is part of the Travel Cancellation Cover)

12 .A cancellation due to a lack in the number of persons required to commence any tour, conference, accommodation or travel arrangements or due to the negligence of a wholesaler or operator.

​

It may be open to the insurer to argue that the cancellation by AY is due to lack of number of bookings for the travel arrangements. In any event, the cruise is most likely to be viewed as a "Travel Arrangement" and not a special event.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It may be open to the insurer to argue that the cancellation by AY is due to lack of number of bookings for the travel arrangements.

This would not be a reasonable interpretation. Scheduled transportation is supposed to be 'scheduled', not dependent on passenger loads.

 

[equus]

Scheduled transportation is supposed to be 'scheduled', not dependent on passenger loads.

JQ

 

[MEL_Traveller]

JQ

JQ may do that, but when entering in to the contract of carriage it is not dependent on passenger loads - otherwise it would be too uncertain. And there is no mention of that in the contract.

There are however many tour packages - even from some quite prominent providers - that make it clear there needs to be a minimum number of passengers before a tour is run. This is disclosed at the time of booking.

With schedule airline operations the passenger accepts weather to some extent (and potentially ATC in some parts of the world). But the flight not departing because of loadings is not a standard consideration.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Any thoughts on whether travel insurance might stump up here for the paid SAS flights from HEL?

Whilst I agree you are doing the right thing working with QF to find a suitable alternative, when something goes wrong (or potentially goes wrong), I always contact my travel insurance provider immediately and by email (so I have a written record).

In your case you may or may not be covered, depending on the wording of your policy; but it would be nice to know where you stand. And it is likely that your policy has a clause that states you must contact them within a certain period (mine does).

Whatever you do, don't make arrangements to pay for alternative flights until after you have checked with your insurance provider.

Good luck.

 

[Daver6]

I spoke to Amex (well Chubb) insurance this morning. They won't cover anything to do with this.

 

[Jacques Vert]

At least you know where you stand.

Back to QF & AY; they need to find you some earlier flights.

 

[justinbrett]

I spoke to Amex (well Chubb) insurance this morning. They won't cover anything to do with this.

And nor should they. This is a result of a commercial decision made by the airlines, it is not an unpreventable incident that couldn't be helped.

The airlines are absolutely on the hook for this - but that's limited up to and including a full refund.

 

[Daver6]

I think realistically, if AY aren't y

And nor should they. This is a result of a commercial decision made by the airlines, it is not an unpreventable incident that couldn't be helped.

The airlines are absolutely on the hook for this - but that's limited up to and including a full refund.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but assuming I say ok, I'll take the full refund, what about the non-refundable deposits I've paid for accommodation and the cruise? No way the airline is going to cough up for that. Travel insurance? Not suggesting I'm looking to even consider this approach, more just curious.

 

[offshore171]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but assuming I say ok, I'll take the full refund, what about the non-refundable deposits I've paid for accommodation and the cruise? No way the airline is going to cough up for that. Travel insurance? Not suggesting I'm looking to even consider this approach, more just curious.

I don't think the previous poster was suggesting you forfeit the cruise etc.

I think the refund suggestion is in the sense of get your money back for all the flights, so you are free to go ahead and book a fresh set of flights that will get you there in time for your arrangements.

If you do end up doing that, t's a really good idea to fly in to the port city a day beforehand as a contingency.

 

[Daver6]

I don't think the previous poster was suggesting you forfeit the cruise etc.

I think the refund suggestion is in the sense of get your money back for all the flights, so you are free to go ahead and book a fresh set of flights that will get you there in time for your arrangements.

If you do end up doing that, t's a really good idea to fly in to the port city a day beforehand as a contingency.

Issue being this is an award booking. So the level of flexibility isn't available.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but assuming I say ok, I'll take the full refund, what about the non-refundable deposits I've paid for accommodation and the cruise? No way the airline is going to cough up for that. Travel insurance? Not suggesting I'm looking to even consider this approach, more just curious.

An airline has cancelled one small segment of a ticket. From an insurance perspective, given you can still make the cruise via alternative means (for example Norwegian flies LGW-BGO non-stop on the 30th for £56), is it reasonable for them (or the airline) to cover all non-refundable costs?

Unfortunately these things happen.

 

[Daver6]

Well I've wanted to say this, but I'm still stuck in HEL

So as per instruction from QF, I called back today. Once again, they could find no update from AY. However, very clearly advised me that I need to talk to AY directly as they're the ones who cancelled the flight, to see what other options they might offer. So I called AY who before I really could get into it advised me that I need to deal with QF as that is who I have the booking with. So the old finger pointing. Not my problem, speak to the other person.

I called QF back and updated them. Was told all QF can do is rebook me the next day or get a refund on that sector. Would be no points, but surprisingly $380 in taxes. So I need to consider just accepting that and booking SAS from HEL to BGO or look at a complete re-routing a day earlier, assuming award options exist.

I arrive in HEL at 6:55am in have all day to get to BGO. So not a problem. Given I'd be on a different ticket, what do people think would be a safe departure tome from HEL on SAS? 11:15am I'd imagine should be pretty safe?

 

[offshore171]

Well I've wanted to sapeople think would be a safe departure tome from HEL on SAS? 11:15am I'd imagine should be pretty safe?

Yes that’s very safe in terms of making the connection. Helsinki offers a very slick transit experience.

The question then becomes if you take the 1115 flight to Bergen does that get you there with enough contingency for any possible delays?

The only significant issue that can cause delays out of Helsinki is snow and de-icing operations.

Unlikely in late October, but possible. FWIW, last time I was in Helsinki we got snow in Oct.

 

[Daver6]

The SAS flight isn't direct either. Have to change in ARN. I need to confirm, but pretty sure even if I make the following flight in ARN I should still be ok.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Would something like this work for you?

 

[Daver6]

It would. We're actually commencing in PER, so easy enough to go PER to ADL and forget about SYD altogether. Downside is another day off work and missing out with catching up with friends for dinner in Sydney on the Monday evening.

At the moment, leaning towards jut paying for the SAS flights. The refund in fuel fines will roughly cover it. Towards the end of March I'll have an Amex travel credit owing too, so if I book through Amex travel I'll actually be ahead. Will mull it over.

Really appreciate you going to the effort to look up options Thank you!