Ad blocker detection now enabled

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My point was (and I'll restate it) is that dealing directly with advertisers instead of using display networks is a better way to increase ad revenue :)

I'm sure AFF does deal with advertisers directly (have no inside knowledge), but that isn't always going to be available. Deals need to be worked out and only run for a set length of time etc. I do recall AMEX used to come along to events held by AFF... but that did stop...

There are a lot of assumptions in this thread that AFF costs nothing to run and just deals with AdSense, however that sort of information is surely commercial in confidence and not expected to be shared here. I expect there's more than meets the eye.
 
The effect of neutalising ad blocker software on AFF - clear cookies and wander on AFF for 5 minutes - check cookies - 138 added. Clear Cookies again - do one search that now gives me heaps of advertised alternatives nothing to do with the search - 38 cookies added. Looks like a big clean up after every visit to AFF from now on and less frequent visits. Yes there are subscriptions but I thought AFF worked because of the contributions from its members, without which the ads would be somewhat redundant.
 
The effect of neutalising ad blocker software on AFF - clear cookies and wander on AFF for 5 minutes - check cookies - 138 added. Clear Cookies again - do one search that now gives me heaps of advertised alternatives nothing to do with the search - 38 cookies added. Looks like a big clean up after every visit to AFF from now on and less frequent visits. Yes there are subscriptions but I thought AFF worked because of the contributions from its members, without which the ads would be somewhat redundant.


The paid subscriptions are ad free.
Are they also cookie free?
Arguably taking user data and on selling it without their explicit consent would be unethical if not "stealing".
 
And here's another question for the people who say that using Adblockers is akin to stealing.

Unless everyone has access to cheap fast unlimited data plans then I maintain that advertising consumes data, and this data is counted towards a data limit, and when the limit is exceeded the telecomunication carrier imposes excess data charges for data and ads to be delivered to someone viewing an AFF page, in that case the advertiser is stealing from me (via my telecomunication carrier bill).

Adblockers were invented for the world of expensive/limited data which gets throttled after a limit is exceeded, of which some parts of Australia and mobile networks are notorious for.

Here is an extract from an article that states the case:


https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...can-eat-up-to-79-mobile-data-allotments.shtml


Why Are People Using Ad Blockers? Ads Can Eat Up To 79% Of Mobile Data Allotments

from the zero-rate-this dept

By now, usage caps on both fixed and wireless networks have grown increasingly common. And while broadband carriers are endlessly looking toward caps and zero rating for a competitive and financial advantage, overlooked is the fact that a huge amount of a user's monthly bandwidth allotment is now being eroded by good old advertising. How much? According to a new study by Enders Analysis, anywhere from 18% to 79% of your monthly data bucket can go toward delivering advertising. Previous studies had pegged this between 10% and 50%.

Looking at individual page elements, between the ads and the Javascript used sometimes to deliver them, this data consumption can be substantial:

Especially if you're on a fixed-income using a limited data plan, current, bloated ads can become a real problem:
Entry-level mobile data plans start at around 500MB/month — which Enders says could be used to load the text of the King James Bible around 100 times. So "resource-hungry" advertising could clearly become a concern for some users. That's not to mention that ads can increase page-load time, Enders adds.

It's important to remember this as websites begin waging all out war on ad blockers. Users aren't just using ad blockers because they think it's fun to generate industry histrionics about the end of publishing and journalism as we know it. Users are using ad blockers to protect themselves from annoying malware and poorly-designed advertising and web formatting. They're also using ad blockers to help protect their wallet from broadband provider overage fees. Block the blockers, and you're blocking an effective consumer technology tool.

You also have to keep in mind that usage caps (especially on fixed line networks) are entirely arbitrary constructs, not tied to any real-world costs or engineering necessity. And while carriers have worked tirelessly to zero rate their own content or content from the biggest companies on the Internet, so far nobody's rushing to cut consumers a little slack and zero rate advertising at any meaningful scale. In other words, not only are consumers paying an arm and a leg for mobile data, they're paying an arm and a leg predominately so they can be marketed to.

When these consumers turned to ad blockers to reduce costs, websites like GQ, Wired, Forbes, and the New York Times decided the best course of action was to accuse these ungrateful coughs of selfishly trying to demolish online content creation. Wired was in such a rush it designed a miserable adblock blocker that's still blocking users that don't use adblockers (or in my case have whitelisted the site). It's just one more reason why adblocker blocking is a lazy "solution" to a misunderstood problem. Don't want users using ad blockers? Design better, leaner, more efficient and more intelligent ads.
 
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The paid subscriptions are ad free.
Are they also cookie free?
Arguably taking user data and on selling it without their explicit consent would be unethical if not "stealing".

I believe they're nearly ad-free.

Even maintaining a login to the site requires a cookie, so there's always going to be some floating around.

The Privacy Statement probably explains what is and isn't collected. I don't pretend to understand it all though, but I presume if a third-party is used to provide ads, then they're collecting the data, not AFF, and it was never AFF's data? Or I could be wrong as I'm no expert, but that's how I read it.
 
I believe they're nearly ad-free.

Even maintaining a login to the site requires a cookie, so there's always going to be some floating around.

The Privacy Statement probably explains what is and isn't collected. I don't pretend to understand it all though, but I presume if a third-party is used to provide ads, then they're collecting the data, not AFF, and it was never AFF's data? Or I could be wrong as I'm no expert, but that's how I read it.

Do you and the other mods even know what data AFF collects behind the scenes? For example, here's a list of some 19 visible trackers on an average AFF page. Several of these are monitoring and collecting personal data on the viewer...

And these do not include the various specific ad scripts that change on a regular basis, without the specific knowledge of AFF admin and the end user depending on to which external service the ad and tracker reports. (Apology for the large image but I have no editing/trimming facilities on the iPad)

image.jpgimage.jpg
 
Wow why the fuss over cookies and data?

Every bank you deal with actively sells your data to their partners, uses it for marketing and a host of other purposes.

Qantas and Virgin both take your data and sell it - infact Qantas recently invested in a tech company which acts as a platform for big companies to trade your personal data.

If user tracking and privacy are of such importance to you - it may be time to shut down the pc and never log onto the internet again.
 
The Frequent Flyer Concierge team takes the hard work out of finding reward seat availability. Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, they'll help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Wow why the fuss over cookies and data?

Every bank you deal with actively sells your data to their partners, uses it for marketing and a host of other purposes.

Qantas and Virgin both take your data and sell it - infact Qantas recently invested in a tech company which acts as a platform for big companies to trade your personal data.

If user tracking and privacy are of such importance to you - it may be time to shut down the pc and never log onto the internet again.

Why worry about anything which affects you if it's a small part of a bigger problem?
Precisely because it is the small part which affects you.
 
Wow why the fuss over cookies and data?
Invasion of privacy? My beef is not with AFF. My beef is with the ad companies and the lies they sell.

If I just bought something from Goodguys I am not likely to purchase from them again for months. I don't need to see an ad for Goodguys on every website I visit. It annoys the hell out of me. It frustrates me. It worries me. I then go and clear all cookies and lose my browsing history in the process. Then I am angry.

When I use my laptop to purchase something I make that purchase as JohnK. The real JohnK not some anonymous person. Then they use my laptop to track my every move on the internet and use the expensive bandwidth I purchase to upload that data.

That is so wrong on many levels. That is an invasion of my privacy and putting some stupid statement up front that this and that website use cookies to tailor my internet browsing is just garbage.
 
If I just bought something from Goodguys I am not likely to purchase from them again for months. I don't need to see an ad for Goodguys on every website I visit. It annoys the hell out of me. It frustrates me. It worries me. I then go and clear all cookies and lose my browsing history in the process. Then I am angry.

I fear we're perhaps drifting from the topic a bit here, but in the Goodguys example you have what you're actually seeing is the incorrect use of your data. Why you ask? Because they clearly haven't worked out yet that after a purchase you don't want to make another, that they need to market something else to you to engage you correctly.

I'm starting to think like trippin_the_rift so I think it's time for bed!
 
I can say the site loads much slower with adblock disabled (which feels doubly punitive: ads and bad performance.)

One can draw a parallel: airlines have an incentive to make the Y experience bad enough that the percentage of people that can afford J do buy J tickets. I suppose AFF (/many online content-based businesses) is following a similar commercial logic?
 
My view on this whole debate is simple - all organisations, even if mainly run by volunteers, need some cash. For a web-based entity such as AFF, the two main options are always going to be ads or membership fees.

I dislike ads, so I choose to pay the membership fee.
 
Love how some people thinking having ads tailored to their likely needs is a bad/evil thing! I guess for them they were happy in the good old days of the internet where all they ever got was adverts for cough!

So much of what people use on the internet is free (google, blogs, social networks etc) because a few other weaker people can't help but click on the ads. Those of us with some self control, probably only click on 1-2 ads per year, yet get $$$$ of benefit from the internet.
 
Regardless of the ethics, it should be up to the user on how they want to view content and what they want loaded onto their computer.

Just as people flick channels on their TV when an ad appears or how most people on this forum have popup blockers enabled on their browsers.
 
I have removed some posts which are off-topic which speculate about the personal circumstances of some members. Please keep the discussion on topic.
 
Just as people flick channels on their TV when an ad appears or how most people on this forum have popup blockers enabled on their browsers.

I don't get to carry on with what I am doing (i.e. watching my program) when ads come on the TV. I do get to carry on reading a thread on a forum when I have to scroll one more click of my wheelie mouse past a banner advert. In no way are these comparable.

Or does your adblocker, swap you to another website without ads whenever it sees an ad? That would be the equivalent to your example.

Why do people think they should get stuff for free!? It just amazes me!
 
Love how some people thinking having ads tailored to their likely needs is a bad/evil thing! I guess for them they were happy in the good old days of the internet where all they ever got was adverts for cough!
The ad companies know nothing about me so they cannot tailor ads to my likely needs.

When I search for airfares, search for hotels I do so knowing exactly what I am doing and exactly what I am searching. I don't want someone to speculate what I am thinking at any point in time by tracking where I am going and trying to guess what I am doing and trying to repeat that back to me.

Generic ads for things that don't interest me in the slightest would be more appropriate.
 
I don't get to carry on with what I am doing (i.e. watching my program) when ads come on the TV. I do get to carry on reading a thread on a forum when I have to scroll one more click of my wheelie mouse past a banner advert. In no way are these comparable.

If you have to waste your data, wait longer due to page load times, risk your tracking information with undisclosed third parties, scroll down or to the side to continue viewing content because of an ad obstructing your experience, it's totally justifiable for a user to prevent these disruptions. At least on TV you can wait a minute or two for all that to disappear, you can’t online.

Or does your adblocker, swap you to another website without ads whenever it sees an ad? That would be the equivalent to your example.

If you're going to be strict about equivalence, this wouldn't be equivalent either as you can continue to view that content within a minute or so on TV. In the web's case, you can't wait a few minutes for the banner ads to disappear, they’re there forever.

Why do people think they should get stuff for free!? It just amazes me!

It should be up to the user to make a decision based on whether being inconvenienced by ads and tracking is worth providing revenue to that website. I also wouldn't assume that I expect things online to be free or that I don't support websites I value.
 
Reading this thread I am reminded of the new mentality - I want everything for free and I want it now.

I'm pretty sure the days of everything being free on the internet came first. The day that everything becomes a business will be a sad day.
But that's just a side point.

While I don't think anyone should be footing the bill for hosting AFF, I also see it as a community that only exists because of the contributions of that community. Paying for membership in addition doesn't sit well with me. Particularly when a lot of the really good information is held back and 95% of what's posted is not at all useful. The time factor to extract the useful information is quite significant.

The article linked to previously is a good read and sums up my feelings (https://marco.org/2015/08/11/ad-blocking-ethics).
The line in the sand that users drew regarding pop-up advertising didn't destroy the advertising industry and the sites that rely on advertising income. And the similar line in the sand that is being drawn wrt tracking won't either.
I won't be disabling my ad blocker. It's not clear that a paid membership would remove the tracking and bandwidth consumption aspects of the advertisements.

But in any case, my personal value assessment of the site is that I feel the value I've gotten back from this site is within a reasonable proportion to the information I've added and I don't really feel a strong desire to pay a membership on top of that unless the membership adds additional value (which I don't think it does).
The cost of membership seems high compared to the cost of hosting, but maybe I'm being naive here? I assume that means the members are subsidising the non members.
Is AFF struggling financially? Is a financial report published? A community organisation shouldn't be trying to make a profit. If income is a problem there are better ways to increase revenue than blocking those with ad blockers. Reach out to the community in a friendly rather than anti social way. How about accepting donations of any value? let people pick what they think AFF hosting is worth, or add a lower tier of membership that's basically just a contribution to hosting.
 
But in any case, my personal value assessment of the site is that I feel the value I've gotten back from this site is within a reasonable proportion to the information I've added and I don't really feel a strong desire to pay a membership on top of that unless the membership adds additional value (which I don't think it does).
The cost of membership seems high compared to the cost of hosting, but maybe I'm being naive here? I assume that means the members are subsidising the non members.
Is AFF struggling financially? Is a financial report published? A community organisation shouldn't be trying to make a profit. If income is a problem there are better ways to increase revenue than blocking those with ad blockers. Reach out to the community in a friendly rather than anti social way. How about accepting donations of any value? let people pick what they think AFF hosting is worth, or add a lower tier of membership that's basically just a contribution to hosting.

A quick search of the ABN will suggest that it is not a community organisation by definition...
 
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Enhance your AFF viewing experience!!

From just $6 we'll remove all advertisements so that you can enjoy a cleaner and uninterupted viewing experience.

And you'll be supporting us so that we can continue to provide this valuable resource :)


Sample AFF with no advertisements? More..
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