AA won't hold RTW bookings more than 21 days

Discussion in 'American Airlines AAdvantage' started by Tiki, Oct 7, 2006.

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  1. Tiki

    Tiki Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    469
    34
    BNE
    I'm making a new thread as this is a global issue, not just about my RTW trip. When I made my initial RTW booking, they gave me 21 days to buy the ticket. I booked it with AA ATW desk in the States. I just called back to extend the ticket time limit, they refused to do it. They said the computer won't let them put more than 21 days as a ticket time limit because there are several airlines involved. I know that Dave Noble and other people on here have gotten better ticket time limits than that.

    Is this something new because we no longer have a Sydney office? Has anyone been successful in the last month or so in getting a longer ticket tim limit?

    My trip is in July 2007, I can't afford to pay for the tickets until Feb 2007, maybe Jan if we are lucky and watch the budget carefully.

    For the moment, they rebooked the entire itinerary so I have another 21 days. Eventually, they will run out of L class inventory, especially on the LA/LP flights.

    I am wondering if I would be better off booking with LA since they have an Australian office. Would the fuel fines be that much worse? Would they give a better ticket time limit?
     

  2. Dave Noble

    Dave Noble Senior Member

    Oct 10, 2005
    6,419
    8
    Hmm.

    Try giving the UK office a call and asking them to extend the ticketing deadline. They definately can do it and I have had them do it with no hassles. ( +44 207 365 0777 ) . The US office, for some reason, seems less inclined to do so. They can hold it up to the Ticketing Time Limit (TTL) if they want to which (IIRC) for an LxGLOBn booked > 21 days before departure, is 21 days prior to departure. I think you may find the Europe office much more amenable

    Dave
     
  3. alect

    alect Member

    Jun 20, 2006
    350
    3
    MEL
    I have had this experience but it was the CX segments which were "to blame".
     
  4. Tiki

    Tiki Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    469
    34
    BNE
    Dave, have you used the UK office very recently? The AA ATW person led me to believe this is something new. They could be lying but they said the computer won't let them put more than 21 days in. This was 2 different people too. First I had a lady who told me that, then while she was rebooking the segments, my mobile dropped out. I called back on the landline, got a man who told me the same thing. Unless the people in the UK office who answer the phones have a higher level of authority? I'll try later when they are open.

    Also, I saw in another thread, someone got them to accept an Aussie credit card?

    No CX segments. I have QF, LA, LP, AA and AY in that order.
     
  5. Tiki

    Tiki Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    469
    34
    BNE
    Dave, I just called the UK office, I got some man with sort of a French accent. He won't extend it either. The American office put some kind of note in the record that I had requested a longer ticket time limit and refused it, now no one else will extend it.

    Are you sure that you didn't get some kind of privilege because you are platinum or something like that? The UK guy said the same spiel about the computer giving an automatic ticket time limit. I bet he probably put his own little note in there now that I tried again to extend it.
     
  6. Dave Noble

    Dave Noble Senior Member

    Oct 10, 2005
    6,419
    8
    If they've done that, just cancel the reservation and then call the UK office and make a fresh one. The TTL is 21 days before departure and there is no reason why they should not do it

    Dave
     
  7. Tiki

    Tiki Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    469
    34
    BNE
    Dave, I just checked this website: Taxes

    If I am reading it right, Lan is looking very attractive tax wise.

    They don't collect YQ tax for interline carriers. So I would be up for one PPT-IPC and IPC-SCL, 2 x $26.90 AUD plus 5 x intra-South American segments x $13.50 AUD. Total of $121.30 AUD for fuel fines plated on LA.

    I also looked at AY who dosn't collect YQ for interline carriers either. They seem to call a YQ tax "YR" for some reason.

    Looks like I would be up for 1 x European (LHR-HEL) YR $38.00 AUD plus 2 x international (HEL-SIN-BNE) the latter being a AY codeshare on QF metal so 2 x $ 75.40 AUD. Total of $188.80 AUD for fuel fines plated on AY.

    Moving on to AA, I would be up for $101 AUD (GIG-JFK) plus $87.60 AUD (JFK-LHR) assuming they don't charge for interline carriers.

    I looked at QF and just got a headache looking at all those taxes! :shock:

    So if saving on fuel fines is the sole reason for plating on AA, maybe I would be better off with LA or even AY. They share an address on Queen St in Brisbane too so at least there is a local rep/GSA. I'm going to check them out tomorrow. All these calls to the US and UK and they don't want to help me is just getting too frustrating.

    I see that there is no ticket time limit in the fare rules and it should be 21 days prior to departure but they don't want to give it to me. I really do think that AA gave you a better deal because you are a platinum and you strike me as being a very successful businessman too, someone they want to keep on their good side. I haven't even been in AAdvantage for 6 weeks yet! They could care less if I bail or not.

    I can still do a platinum challenge even if I don't plate on AA?
     
  8. Tiki

    Tiki Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    469
    34
    BNE
    This is the GSA for AY, LA, TN, Virgin Atlantic, Air Pacific and a bunch of others. Anyone ever deal with them?

    Concorde International

    <LI class=free id=flag_3>LAN Airlines
    [​IMG] 2/ 410 Queen St Brisbane QLD 4001
    ph: (07) 3407 7272 Airlines & Airline Agents

    That address belongs to Concorde Travel. It appears they only deal with travel agents, not the public?
     
  9. Standby

    Standby Active Member

    May 25, 2006
    619
    55
    Most airlines now have these machines that search for untktd travel and based on the class booked (they have the smarts to know what timelimits are used for which booking class/fares)send out chasers then automatically cancel the space if not tkted .This is irrespective of the timelimit the res agent uses..its difficult for travel agents as GDS wont honor the fare quote beyond the timelimit. Now you may be able to get away with it on just AA fights ,as I'm not sure if they have this software ) but SQ/CX/QF and a whole raft of other airlines certainly do.They focus much more at the lower fares but as RTW fares can cross an number of carriers the amount each carrier gets for each sector is well below the amount they would normally recieve for the class so these are also chased.Another thing to be careful of if yr travelling on say an AA codeshare flight on another carrier,..eg CX or QF, the operating carrier will canx yr AA space if the timelimit isnt adhered to ...after sending a warning to the agent.
    I know this as a mate works for a company that actually builds these driod applications for a number of airlines and there are airlines queuing up for tis stuff and further refining the ones they have as well .
     
  10. Mal

    Mal Enthusiast

    Dec 25, 2004
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    Concorde Travel are a sister company to another company called "World Aviation Systems"
    World Aviation Systems Australia > Passenger Airline Representation

    W.A.S is the company that does the GSA services - not Concorde Travel. Havn't dealt with them but know of them from wanting to change a FinnAir ticket at one stage. Didn't end up having to call them in the end.

    The appropriate numbers for Brisbane:

    Lan

    Reservations / Ticketing
    Tel 07 3407 7272
    Fax 07 3407 7149

    FinnAir

    Reservations / Ticketing
    Tel 07 3407 7102
    Fax 07 3407 7149

    Same office. Slightly different numbers. I presume that's so they can say "FinnAir Reservations" or "Lan Reservations" when you call.

    I'd be interested in how you get on with this. One option I could use for a ATW trip in the future if they're set up correctly.
     
  11. Dave Noble

    Dave Noble Senior Member

    Oct 10, 2005
    6,419
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    This would not cause a problem to the holding of an ONE ATW ticket since the TTL , when booked 22+ days prior to departure, is 21 days prior to departure. There is no fare rule further restricting the time for which the reservation can be held before ticketing


    Code:
      1N .                                                                          
      2N RESERVATIONS/TICKETING                                                     
      3N -----------------------                                                    
      4N .                                                                          
      5N . 1. RESERVATIONS AND TICKETING FOR THE FIRST                              
      6N .    INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT AND ALL PRECEDING FLIGHTS                        
      7N .    ARE REQUIRED AS OUTLINED IN THE CHARTS BELOW.                         
      8N . 2. ALL OTHER SEGMENTS MAY BE OPEN.                                       
      9N ORIGIN IN AREA 1                                                           
     10N .                                                                          
     11N X INDICATES NUMBER OF DAYS                                                 
     12N .                                                                          
     13N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     14N I FARE BASIS  I RESERVATIONS   I TICKET MUST BE      I                     
     15N I             I ARE MADE X     I ISSUED:             I                     
     16N I             I DAYS PRIOR TO  I                     I¥    
     17N I             I DEPARTURE OF   I                     I    ¥                
     18N I             I FIRST FLIGHT   I                     I                     
     19N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     20N I AONE        I 7 DAYS         I 7 DAYS PRIOR TO     I                     
     21N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
     22N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     23N I DONE        I 7 DAYS         I 7 DAYS PRIOR TO     I                     
     24N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
     25N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     26N I L-ONE       I 22 OR MORE     I 21 DAYS PRIOR TO    I                     
     27N I             I DAYS           I DEPARTURE           I                     
     28N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     29N I -           I 21 TO 8 DAYS   I 7 DAYS PRIOR TO     I                     
     30N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
     31N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     32N ORIGIN IN AREA 2/3                                                         
     33N .                                                                          
     34N X INDICATES NUMBER OF DAYS                                                 
     35N .                                                         ¥  
     36N ------------------------------------------------------    ¥                
     37N I FARE BASIS  I RESERVATIONS   I TICKET MUST BE      I                     
     38N I             I ARE MADE X     I ISSUED :            I                     
     39N I             I DAYS PRIOR TO  I                     I                     
     40N I             I DEPARTURE OF   I                     I                     
     41N I             I FIRST FLIGHT   I                     I                     
     42N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     43N I AONE        I ANYTIME        I 1 HOUR PRIOR TO     I                     
     44N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
     45N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     46N I DONE        I ANYTIME        I 1 HOUR PRIOR TO     I                     
     47N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
     48N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     49N I L-ONE       I 22 OR MORE     I 21 DAYS PRIOR TO    I                     
     50N I             I DAYS           I DEPARTURE           I                     
     51N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     52N I -           I 21 TO 8 DAYS   I 7 DAYS PRIOR TO     I                     
     53N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
     54N ------------------------------------------------------    ¥  
     55N I -           I 7 DAYS OR LESS I PRIOR TO DEPARTURE  I    ¥                
     56N ------------------------------------------------------                     
     57N TICKET INSTRUCTIONS                                                        
     58N .                                                                          
     59N . 1. TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON THE TICKET STOCK OF                         
     60N .    AA/AY/BA/CX/EI/IB/LA/LP/QF.                                           
     61N . 2. FOP BOX MUST SHOW:  NON-REF                                           
     62N . 3. ENDORSEMENT BOX OF THE ORIGINAL AND  ALL                              
     63N .    REISSUED TICKETS MUST SHOW:                                           
     64N .    VALID ONLY ON AA/AY/BA/CX/EI/IB/LA/QF/LP                  
    
    Dave
     
  12. Tiki

    Tiki Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    469
    34
    BNE
    I'm between temp jobs at the moment so I had time to do some checking around. I got one travel agency in a shopping mall (not FC) to do a dummy booking. They used a Sabre system and booked my exact itinerary but not the same dates in order to get a tax quote. The system didn't recognize the RTW fare and came up with point-to points, but I assume that wouldn't affect the taxes. The Sabre booking gave only one Q tax of $65 between IPC and LIM (via SCL). Then it gave various country and misc taxes of $322. This particular travel agency has a booking fee of $70 per ticket (unfair because you take the same time to book two people as to book one) plus a credit card surcharge of 2.2%. Total per person is $4473. They want $300 pp deposit, then the rest 60 days prior. I can live with that. The base fare and taxes & fuel fines is $4276.

    Contrast that to AA who wants $4440 but doesn't have a local office I can deal with. It would be a paper ticket to so I would also be up for some kind of courier fee. They are cheaper by $33 but I would probably spend that in the long distance calls trying to deal with them!

    I will shop around travel agents, as long as they have Sabre, the taxes and base fare won't be different so I am just comparing service fees and credit card surcharges. If anyone wants to PM me a recommendation, please do so (assuming you don't allow public recommendations).

    I did call that LAN office in Brisbane. The CSR had no clue what a RTW ticket is! :eek: He did reassure me that there is plenty of L space on the dates I want.
     
  13. NM

    NM
    Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
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    Do note that the final fare is not guaranteed until you have paid for it (all of it). So if there is a fare increase or change on taxes between now and when you actually have the ticket issued, ther final cost will be different.

    I would also be asking the TA which airline they will use to issue the ticket. If the say Qantas, then the fuel surcharges WILL be added at the time Qantas issues the ticket.
     
  14. Tiki

    Tiki Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    469
    34
    BNE
    I got that KVS Tool which is mentioned on FT so I can monitor L class availibility. I'm going to try to delay booking as far as possible and I will get a commitment that they won't use QF, any of the others would do-LA, AA or AY.

    I found one travel agency who doesn't charge a credit card surcharge on Amex at least because they are a partner with them! They also use Sabre.

    On FT, someone told me to be careful how many times I book, cancel and rebook L class because after a while, it doesn't go back to L inventory. Any truth to that?

    Oh, and can anyone think of a reason why travel agents would want to book on QF in preference to the other airlines? Especially when it saves the customer so much in taxes. They don't get any commission on taxes do they?
     
  15. Dave Noble

    Dave Noble Senior Member

    Oct 10, 2005
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    When a seat is released from a reservation, there is no guarantee where it will go

    Dave
     
  16. NM

    NM
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    Because they get paid commissions and kick-backs based on their total annual volume they put through the airlines. The more the put through Qantas the better their benefits from Qantas. Its not always real dollar commissions either - there are other less tangible benefits the airlines use as incentives such as marketing funds/assistance, travel, training assistance etc.

    So for many Australian-based travel agency, it is unlikely they will have the volumes or focus from overseas airlines.

    And remember that the fare rules for tickets like OneWorld Explorer are quite complex and unless the agent sells them regularly they are likely to need to call the airline to verify the routing is valid and to get final quotes for taxes etc. so they will call the airline they know best and with whom they have an existing relationship.

    Most agents probably don't even know that different airlines charge fuel surcharges in different manners for ATW tickets. They probably assume all airlines charge in a similar manner and that the difference in cost will be trivial. We know better!
     
  17. drron

    drron Enthusiast

    Jul 4, 2002
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    Tiki I have also been looking around and have found a travel agent with offices in Brisbane,Noosa,Gold Coast,Sydney and Melbourne who do use Sabre and will book through AA.They dont require payment until 1 month from departure.The catch is their fee is $20 per segment per person with a minimum charge of $100 and maximum of $200 per person.However they accept all credit cards and there are no surcharges.
    Obviously not for a cheap economy ticket but when I buy 2 J tickets RTW then the lack of surcharge means it is very competitive.Also I can use my Diners card and get more AA points.
    I will PM you Tiki with the name.If there is no problem using names I will post again.
     
  18. Dave Noble

    Dave Noble Senior Member

    Oct 10, 2005
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    At a fee of $100 - $200 , I would hope that they werent charging credit card fees, that seems an insane fee. 10 Sectors and its at $200

    I still suggest contacting AA UK and seeing what they will do since I have found the Dublin office quite amenable in decent holds

    Dave
     
  19. NM

    NM
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    Aug 27, 2004
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    Our corporate TA charges a flat $99 for international bookings, and that includes a xONEx fare. It covers the entire itinerary, including hotel and car rental.
     
  20. drron

    drron Enthusiast

    Jul 4, 2002
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    However not everyone has access to a corporate TA.Although I can find a few TA's that charge a lot less they either do not take diners or usually a 2% surcharge so for me this deal works out.I must mention I get 1.5 rewards points for every dollar i spend on DC and can convert those to AA points.Therefore each $A I spend = 0.75 AA points.So this deal comes out a lot cheaper than buying points on aa.com.
    As I said it is obviously not for everyone but there probably are others in a similiar situation to me.
     
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