A320 German-wings accident in Southern France

[trixydoza]

there has only been the faintest hint of Islam mentioned in the Germanwings incident and its a very long way from someone having a particular faith to an assumption that this means they are a terrorist.

Exactly. I don't think bows of similar length will be drawn if he turns out not to be of that particular faith.

Common link between the Lindt cafe incident and this? Mental illness. Nothing more, nothing less.

And plenty of mental illness on display here.

 

[Ansett]

Not sure this revelation is going to be good for German Wings or Lufthansa

Germanwings co-pilot told airline about severe depression - 9news.com.au

 

[BAM1748]

Exactly. I don't think bows of similar length will be drawn if he turns out not to be of that particular faith.

Common link between the Lindt cafe incident and this? Mental illness. Nothing more, nothing less.

And plenty of mental illness on display here.

Germanwings, yes there is medical evidence of mental illness, Lindt Cafe I don't think there is any actual evidence unless all terrorists by definition are ill, he was a bloke wanting to make a point.

Please take care when throwing around the words "mental illness" and making this sort of common connection.

Matt

 

[Mr_Orange]

The presenter on ABC 612 (BNE) this morning referred to the aircraft as "an A380"... oh dear, it's a pretty sad state of affairs when journos cannot distinguish between an A320 and an A380!!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not sure this revelation is going to be good for German Wings or Lufthansa

Germanwings co-pilot told airline about severe depression - 9news.com.au

there might be a lot of airlines checking employee records over the next few days.

i appreciate there is a line of thought that mental health issues need to be treated softly softly... pilots should be encouraged to self report, shouldn't be penalised for coming forward... shouldn't have their careers automatically cancelled.

but I'm not sure how realistic that is.

in some cases coming forward is going to mean the end of their career. I'm not necessarily sure we should temporarily treat symptoms and then leave it up to self-reporting after that. the potential is for issues to then slip under the radar and be forgotten, or not properly risk assessed five or 10 years down the track.

I don't know what the solution is... but I'm not convinced pilot 'well-being' trumps the 'well-being' of the passengers they are responsible for.

perhaps this is a good time to have a much broader review of pilot health issues...like fatigue, and how that can be countered (perhaps it's time to see if there can be approval of certain short-acting sleep aides for use during layovers?)

Regarding the two-person coughpit rule, I feel more comfortable with it in place. I appreciate comments by some pilots that this could cause a distraction, and some (alleged pilots) have even gone as far to object saying this goes to show 'airlines don't trust pilots'.

the 'not trusting us' is not really worth addressing... I don't think the vast majority of pilots actually think their ego is more important than potential risk mitigation.

as as for the distraction issue... some pilots have argued the two-minute presence of another person could cause them to, for example, miss ATC communications. I'm confident competent pilots will be able to manage this.

but perhaps the 'distraction' issue serves to remind us of the survey where 50% of long-haul pilots admited to falling asleep in the coughpit, and another 30% admit to waking up to find their colleague asleep. as part of an overall review of 'pilot well being', underlying causes for issues such as fatigue need to be revisited.

 

[Ansett]

Mobile phone video from inside Germanwings flight found at crash site: reports - 9news.com.au


One hopes that NO ONE Ever publicizes these videos and or images of the state of passengers in the cabin. That would be the lowest of low reporting IMHO.

 

[fully6mps]

Mobile phone video from inside Germanwings flight found at crash site: reports - 9news.com.au


One hopes that NO ONE Ever publicizes these videos and or images of the state of passengers in the cabin. That would be the lowest of low reporting IMHO.

I already find the reporting of these incidents at the lower end of moral behaviour when they publish pictures of grieving relatives, in these horrific events surely those impacted could be afforded the dignity of not having their image beamed around the world by the media.

Don't know what the odds are that amongst all the wreckage they managed to find not only a mobile phone/memory card intact but it also happened to have a recording of the incident, could be a false report possibly. Will wait to see it announced by the investigators.

 

[dajop]

I already find the reporting of these incidents at the lower end of moral behaviour when they publish pictures of grieving relatives, in these horrific events surely those impacted could be afforded the dignity of not having their image beamed around the world by the media.

Unfortunately the public lap it up, which is why the media report it. We all love hearing a good story, particularly one that we relate to, even if (or perhaps especially if) it is a bad news story. I don't know which event triggered it, but I now actively avoid media following tragedies such as this, even after 9-11 I didn't watch TV, or read newspapers for days. Seeing it unfold with Sandra Sully and contemplating what just happened was enough for me, I didn't feel the need for microscopic detail.

 

[legroom]

there might be a lot of airlines checking employee records over the next few days.

i appreciate there is a line of thought that mental health issues need to be treated softly softly... pilots should be encouraged to self report, shouldn't be penalised for coming forward... shouldn't have their careers automatically cancelled.

but I'm not sure how realistic that is.

in some cases coming forward is going to mean the end of their career. I'm not necessarily sure we should temporarily treat symptoms and then leave it up to self-reporting after that. the potential is for issues to then slip under the radar and be forgotten, or not properly risk assessed five or 10 years down the track.

I don't know what the solution is... but I'm not convinced pilot 'well-being' trumps the 'well-being' of the passengers they are responsible for.

.

I am one of those who advocate for a voluntary and blame-free reporting of mental issues for / from pilots.

That would remove the fear of career 'suicide' (pun intended).

Having said that, the subsequent management would be as per the professional assessments which may - in the worst cases - result in a flying ban subject to recovery upon treatment.

Not all cases would lead to suicidal ideation.

Not all cases would respond to therapy at the same pace.

So, "... softly, softly..." does not equate with flying-at-any-cost approach. Far from it !

It only refers to an open mind on the issue of mental illness and further, treatment is mostly successful and therefore there should be no wholesale suspension / termination once that becomes known.

Regarding follow up, that's again entirely a matter for the treating medico with the airlines taking an active interests, say a 'clearance' certificate from the shrink every 3-4 months *

If press reports of his illness having been reported to LH some years ago are correct, LH owes us an explanation on how it came to accept that he was - at the time - free from any illness and mentally 'fit for duty'.

*: please note that even under active psych supervision, suicide still occurs (had unfortunately witnessed that scenario). It reduces but does NOT eliminate that possibility.

 

[medhead]

Germanwings, yes there is medical evidence of mental illness, Lindt Cafe I don't think there is any actual evidence unless all terrorists by definition are ill, he was a bloke wanting to make a point.

Please take care when throwing around the words "mental illness" and making this sort of common connection.

Matt

The lindt cafe bloke was a criminal trying to claim a noble cause. I'd say he had some significant mental issues for thinking that was a valid approach, for his letters to soldier's widows and for killing his wife. What normal person thinks killing their wife is an answer? Simply put he had a string of criminal actions, and he reached the end of the rope. What he claimed at the end is hard a valid label.

I would also remind many here about the terrorist acts of Jewish extremism. Shooting people at worship, murdering a PM.

Waco was religious. The Troubles had a significant religious element. Weren't those guys shooting people from the boot of a car using some religious justification?

 

[OATEK]

Foxtel tonight was saying that Lufthansa will be paying the compensation. Maybe that is wrong too but if so it is what people will remember.

The story in Europe over the last few days has been about Lufthansa, the 60 year's anniversary since being reformed after the war, and the 48 y.o CEO in the firing line. Mr Spohr has looked decidedly uncomfortable on TV and has not responded about the handling of pilots who might have depression. Just keeps saying "we are learning more every day". Not much about Germanwings in any of the stories here now, nearly all about Lufthansa.

 

[jamesD]

Interesting article:

Flying Under the Influence: Commercial Pilots and Mind-altering Drugs

 

[BAM1748]

The story in Europe over the last few days has been about Lufthansa, the 60 year's anniversary since being reformed after the war, and the 48 y.o CEO in the firing line. Mr Spohr has looked decidedly uncomfortable on TV and has not responded about the handling of pilots who might have depression. Just keeps saying "we are learning more every day". Not much about Germanwings in any of the stories here now, nearly all about Lufthansa.

He should look uncomfortable, he wants to take the big dollars so the buck stops with him. If it was a good year he would be p there smiling and getting his big bonus, gotta take the bad with the good.

 

[amaroo]

Data from the second black box found in the wreckage of the Germanwings flight that crashed last week in the French Alps confirm the co-pilot acted deliberately, investigators have said.

Readings indicate that Andreas Lubitz repeatedly accelerated as he flew his Germanwings plane into a mountainside, killing all 150 on board.

“A first reading shows that the pilot in the coughpit used the automatic pilot to descend the plane towards an altitude of 100 feet (30 metres). Then, several times during the descent, the pilot changed the automatic pilot settings to increase the aircraft’s speed,” said the French BEA crash investigation office in a statement.

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

 

[drron]

A new twist-
https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/27034229/killer-pilot-spiked-captains-coffee-with-diuretic-drug/

 

[mannej]

A new twist-
https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/27034229/killer-pilot-spiked-captains-coffee-with-diuretic-drug/

Interesting how the title implies that the pilot had his drink spiked, yet the only evidence so far is the internet searches of the first officer, nothing more than circumstantial evidence at this stage.

 

[medhead]

I find the suggestion of drink spiking as not that earth shattering. It fits the current number one theory. If the guy was intent on crashing the plane, which required removing the other pilot.Should we be surprised that he took steps to achieve that intention?

 

[OATEK]

Letter from Germanwings to people who have a subscription to their offers:

Dear oatek,

On the 24th of March 2015 we received the sad news of the fatal decent of Germanwings flight 9525 in the French Alps. 150 people tragically lost their lives. We deeply mourn this loss and wish to express our most sincere sympathy to the relatives of the victims. We will continue to do everything in our power to help the families involved. We would like to express our deep appreciation to the numerous helpers on site who have been working tirelessly. Staff from all areas of the entire Lufthansa Group have also shown an extraordinary willingness to help. We have been especially moved by the thoughtful expressions of sympathy offered to us by you, our customers, during these difficult times. Your words provide us with the comfort, courage and strength to deal with this incomprehensible tragedy in the days and months ahead. We would like to thank you for your support and in particular for your continued trust in our services. In deepest sympathy,

Thomas Winkelmann

 

[Mal]

There's a nutter who claims the plane was hacked and controlled remotely. I won't link to the article, search for it yourself if you want to find out his theories.

 

[Mattg]

There's been another Germanwings incident today, this time a bomb threat before takeoff in Cologne-Bonn. Plane was evacuated on the ground and nobody was hurt. No bomb was found.

Germanwings evacuates plane after police receive bomb threat, airline says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)