787 is gonna be late!

[pauly7]

Not meant as a smart a** comment. Most things are better than a 737 on most routes.

Truer words were never spoken

Evan, on the PER -> East Coast routes I'm with you I'd take the A330 over the 743... For me on that route:

A330 > 743 > 767 > 737 >/= A320

IMHO

 

[inpd]

So I'm going to travel to Oz from LAX/SFO in Sept. Do I have any chance
of getting on some new metal (or should that be carbon)?

Maybe I have a chance. When I try to book an award there is now four
classes of travel: economy, premium economy, C and F.

Now correct me if I'm wrong. Only the A380 has the premium economy
section. So at least there preparing for it.

 

[NM]

Maybe I have a chance. When I try to book an award there is now four
classes of travel: economy, premium economy, C and F.

Now correct me if I'm wrong. Only the A380 has the premium economy
section. So at least there preparing for it.

Some of the 747's are also getting premium economy and will be operated well before the A380 is delivered to Qantas.

 

[codash1099]

Boeing quiet on report of further 787 delay

 

[Mal]

Another delay is confirmed:

First 787 flight faces fresh delays: Boeing | The Courier-Mail

THE date of the first flight for Boeing's new 787 Dreamliner jetliner has been pushed back again, the airline manufacturer confirmed overnight.

The plane's first test flight is now moved to June 2008 from its previous end-March target.

and

Dreamliner deliveries are now expected to begin in early 2009, rather than late 2008.

 

[ANstar]

And this is only a delay to first flight.... I'm sure there will be more delays to come given the very tight flight testing schedule. whilst some may say it is not tight, I reckon 6 months of testing with a new technology aircraft will be tight.... even if it all goes well internally, I'm sure the FAA will want to be extra cautious with this plane.

I would have expected Boeing to be a little more conservative after all the bad wrap Airbus got after announcing delay after delay.

 

[NM]

So that is a delay of almost a year since the official roll-out on 8th July 2007. So I wonder what forms of compensation are going to discussed with the airlines whose early deliveries are going to slip? We know that QF negotiated the purchase of additional A330s at bargain prices to cover the capacity gap. There is a significant cost in delaying the retirement of older aircraft like the 743s and 767s - both direct financial cost and customer dissatisfaction with the condition of the older aircraft.

 

[simongr]

I guess it is tougher to build a radically new aircraft than both manufacturers thought...

 

[NM]

I guess it is tougher to build a radically new aircraft than both manufacturers thought...

The 777 was radically different at the time it was built and they managed to have it flying and certified in record time. I guess they just assumed they could do it again.

 

[serfty]

Methinks perhaps the biggest radical difference here relates to the use of composite materials!

Boeing has announced that as much as 50 percent of the primary structure - including the fuselage and wing - on the 787 will be made of composite materials.

 

[simongr]

Just trying to recall the 777 TV show that I used to watch and I dont recall it being that dramatically different compared to say the major leaps that the A380 (sheer scale) and 787 (composites) present.

 

[NM]

Just trying to recall the 777 TV show that I used to watch and I dont recall it being that dramatically different compared to say the major leaps that the A380 (sheer scale) and 787 (composites) present.

It was Boeing's first foray into Fly-By-Wire and as such all the flight systems were very different to all previous Boeing commercial airliners.

 

[NM]

Methinks perhaps the biggest radical difference here relates to the use of composite materials!

The initial reports of delays were blamed on the supply of fasteners for the composite materials. Not sure if that is still being blamed.

 

[Yada Yada]

“In the meantime, we will look at a range of options including revised retirement dates for some of our aircraft, re-allocating existing capacity and potential schedule adjustments."

Link to story

Keeping the old 767's around even longer won't be very popular. I hate travelling in those old rattlers.

Methinks perhaps the biggest radical difference here relates to the use of composite materials!

The previous delay was because of problems with the supply chain...

Parts shortages and problems with a complex web of global suppliers forced the US aerospace giant to announce in October that it would delay the delivery of the first plane to Japanese carrier All Nippon Airways from May this year to November-December.

That delay pushed back the delivery of the first Qantas Group plane from August to February next year.

US media reports have now speculated that Boeing will be unable to meet its goal of delivering 109 planes by the end of next year, although it is unclear how this delay would affect individual airlines.

Link to story

Don't know if that's still the case but it seems this new method of operation is proving difficult.

 

[Paul_PER]

The 743's cost more to run due to flight crew (ie required a flight engineer) and also no doubt fuel burn (but i am not sure if this is the case, just an assumption since they are older, no winglets etc)
The real problem no dount is the cost of a D check, if you bother doing it then you may as well keep them longer.

E

From memory I believe the Qantas 747-338's were converted to two-man flight crews quite a few years ago. The work was done at Avalon and they did 5 out of the 6. The sixth, unconverted, airframe sat engineless on the tarmac for years. The conversion, plus installation of the AV system was done originally so the planes could be used in Asian markets, hence the two-class, 450 seat, configuration. As competitors upgraded their products this plan went out the window.

I don't think Qantas planned to use them domestically when they did the conversions - but flying domestic was also how the 747-238's ended their lives.

 

[Paul_PER]

It'll be interesing to see what mainline decide to do with them now they're equipped with the ER engines. The original 4 QF aircraft with no skybeds, I guess they'll go back onto CityFlyer service between SYD & PER? (VH-EBA to VH-EBD)

The last two aircraft (VH-EBE & VH-EBF) were only delivered mid last year so hopefull QF had enough common sense to put the strengthened floors in and they'll join long haul ops?

I understand that converting from an A330-201 to an A330-203 involves re-programing the engine computers. So in theory they can be de-rated again.

The higher/lower max thrust settings effect the maintenance regime with the ER (203) setting being more expensive than the 201.

I would guess that VH-EBA to EBD will come back to CityFlyer. By the time all the 767's are replaced by 787's (say 2010 to 2015) these four A330's will be over a decade old and be ready to be sold and/or converted to freighters.

 

[Yada Yada]

I would guess that VH-EBA to EBD will come back to CityFlyer. By the time all the 767's are replaced by 787's (say 2010 to 2015) these four A330's will be over a decade old and be ready to be sold and/or converted to freighters.

The old 767's are going to be really old by 2015! :shock:

 

[serfty]

Oldest VH-OGT commissioned in 1988, average 763 age is 15.1 years.

Not taking any retirements into account; 2015 will see this go up to over 22 years.

 

[Yada Yada]

Oldest VH-OGT commissioned in 1988, average 763 age is 15.1 years.

Not taking any retirements into account; 2015 will see this go up to over 22 years.

What about those wretched VH-Zxx planes from BA - are they older? Ther certainly seem older!

 

[serfty]

What about those wretched VH-Zxx planes from BA - are they older? Ther certainly seem older!

Circa 1990 (e.g. ZXC); I'm sure BA worked them quite hard and did not lease their best to QF.