787 is gonna be late!

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by maninblack, Oct 11, 2007.

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  1. maninblack

    maninblack Established Member

    Aug 14, 2006
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  2. jasonja3

    jasonja3 Member

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    Probably very frustrated as this will further hamper QF and Esp. JQ's expansion, but in saying that, surely they would have anticipated some kind of delay given that they are building a brand new A/C.
     
  3. NM

    NM
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    So long as the initial delay does not exceed 6 months, its going to be annoying but not a major problem to QF and others. I think most airlines would have planned for up to 6 months delay. And I expect they will catch up the delay over the first 2 years or so of manufacturing.
     
  4. ANstar

    ANstar Active Member

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    I thought it strange QF ordered A330's for delviery after the 787's were due.... now it seems like the got burned once and planned for a small delay.
     
  5. serfty

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    #5 serfty, Oct 11, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
    Methinks any pain Qantas may feel by 787 delays will be somewhat alleviated by the fact that these few brand new A332's soon to begin operating were very inexpensive.
    .
     
  6. simongr

    simongr Enthusiast

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    I had my second and third experiences of the A330 yesterday and I am really preferring it to the 747 in J (obviously the lack of F is a downer). The aircraft looks and feels newer and the 2-2-2 seating in J guarantees access to the ailse and no crawl-overs and if flying with mrssimongr we are guaranteed to be just the two of us together. Also the Tumi rollaboard fits in wheels first so takes up less overhead space :)
     
  7. NM

    NM
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    well they really didn't have much choice. The A330 orders were partly as compensation for A380 deliveries (purchase price heavily subsidised by Airbus), and they had to wait until there were spare delivery slots on the order book. They could hardly ask Airbus to subsidise the purchase of Boeing 787s, now could they?
     
  8. NM

    NM
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    The new ones as part of the A380 compensation are A330-200 models. They will be configured with Skybreds and operate routes like QF25/26 MEL-AKL-LAX-AKL-MEL, SYD-PVG and SYD-BOM, as well as some NRT routes. I believe all the A330-300s were ordered at the time of the original A330/380 purchase and have now all been delivered.
     
  9. moa999

    moa999 Senior Member

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    so what compensation is Qantas getting from Boeing...

    Cheap options on a 747-8 lol.
     
  10. NM

    NM
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    We have not heard how a planned 6 month delay to first delivery may affect deliveries to QF who are not scheduled for their first arrival until about 15 months later. So don't assume there will be any compensation. Its a little different to the 2 years delay for the A380.

    But if there was to be any such compensation, assume it would be in terms of discounts on further 787 orders or perhaps 73H orders or even on a total care package.

    As we found with Airbus and the A380, delivery schedules can be varied many times through the process. In this case, Boeing are at the mercy of their suppliers.
     
  11. serfty

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    Yep, that was a mistype (sort of like skybreds [although that's an eybrow raising concept:shock: ])

    Here's the Qantas Press release from a year ago: Qantas Orders Additional A380 Aircraft
     
  12. serfty

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    Jetstar had expected to take delivery of its first B787-8 aircraft in July next year.

    So there is a definite delay of at least 4 months for JQ, probably more. Jetstar were to get the Qantas groups first 15.

    As for Qantas specifically they were to take delivery of the first B787 in July 2009.
     
  13. ANstar

    ANstar Active Member

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    JQ were due to start receiving their 787's next year... so QF will be due compo.

    It will also mean a further delay in 743 retirement as the A332's from JQ won't be freed up to go back to domestic.
     
  14. NM

    NM
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    That depends on what is written in the contract regarding guarantee of delivery dates. I doubt any of us are privy to the contract terms and conditions in order to comment on whether or not QF will be due compensation.
     
  15. NM

    NM
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    Well, some might say they are crumby :rolleyes: Perhaps hard and cold like a bread roll served on QF?
     
  16. ANstar

    ANstar Active Member

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    ""Compensation issues will be the subject of commercial negotiations between the Qantas and Boeing companies.''

    Boeing delays won't hit earnings: Qantas - Business - Business - smh.com.au

    Sounds like they will be due compensation. I can't see QF having a 6 month delay and getting zip.
     
  17. NM

    NM
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    Indeed that would be my personal expectation. But without being privy to the contract terms, I am not willing to use words like "will" in the context of compensation agreements.
     
  18. serfty

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    #18 serfty, Oct 11, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
    So the first Qantas B787 won't go into service as was expected in July 2009; it's going to be at least December. So definitely delays to Qantas delivery; there will surely be compensation of some form or another.

    Boeing delays won't hit earnings: Qantas

     
  19. maninblack

    maninblack Established Member

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    There must be some cost and capacity issues for QF. Several of the remaining 743's are due for D check soon and were to be retired. I am told that a number of 744's are also soon due for D check, though they were not to be retired yet. Apparently a number of other 744's though were to be retired around 2009/10 also.

    With the rising $AUD travel is on the up. JQ are desperate for extra capacity and route expansion. QF wanted to retire 743's ( I believe by 2009, which isn't far off) and get 763's off international routes and none of this will be happening on time, unles QF actually shrinks some services.

    Similarly for us passengers who were looking forward to seeing the end of 763's on international services it looks like we will be waiting longer for that happy day too.
     
  20. NM

    NM
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    Yes, there will certainly be a cost to keep the remaining 743s operating on the domestic trans-con routes while QF awaits the delivery of the JQ 787-8s which will free up the A332s to return to domestic ops. But there is also the saving of not having to make final capital payments for the new aircraft until delivery. Which side of the ledger is greater is unknown to me. But at least there is some off-set.
    Of course the rising A$ (or more accurately the plummeting US$) will also have a positive affect on QF's bottom line if it remains this way when purchase payments are due (which I assume are fixed in US$).

    Perhaps QF could take the first few A380s and paint them silver and orange, and squeeze in 800 seats and loan them to JQ for a few months :shock:
    If it pans out as Boeing are suggesting (i.e. no further delays) then the 763 retirement should not be affected. They are suggesting that the first 15 x 787 (which are for JQ) will be delivered by the same final date. So they are suggesting they will catch up the delay over the first 18 months or so. That would mean the QF 787s are planned to be delivered pretty much on time, and its those deliveries that will see the 767s move off QF international routes.

    The delivery of the 6 new A332s will help to get rid of some 763 international ops. But that just means more 763s to be converted to domestic config for AU and trans-Tasman ops.
     
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