400 Qantas Jobs to go at Melbourne

[Mwenenzi]

Purvinas has been talking on 774ABC. The usual spiel regarding why we must only have Australian engineers etc. But I did like his comment that Singaporean, Filipino, and Hong Kong engineers could not speak English well enough to read the technical manuals.

But aren't the Airbus manual's in French :idea:
That must be the reason QF will never do heavy A380 maintenance on Oz. Purvina's blokes can't read the manual

 

[VHOEJ]

I wonder if the affected workers and union bosses are thinking to themselves that if they didn't push for so much, they may not have lost EVERYTHING!!

Exactly - although I am not sure how many of these workers have been striking over the past couple of years. If they are all represented by the ALEA, I find it hard to sympathise. Their union did nothing to protect thier jobs and in the end, if you try and 'bake the airline slowly', the airline will win the war everytime. Purvinas never seems to get that simple fact. But he doesn't care, he isn't losing a job.

A lot of them have been riding the gravy train for some time - they get paid well (particiularly for thier licences) and they know it. They get a lot of perks and have been protecting it as long as they can with the 'only we can maintain the aircraft' arguement running very very thin. They know how much of a pay drop they would get if they moved to DJ or any other airline.

Three locations was just not needed - I for one am happy that the BNE facility has continued unaffected.

 

[ajca]

I wonder if they would be on the same pay and conditions at DJ.

Well, no, pay and conditions at DJ would be much lower as DJ offshores at least 50% of its heavy maintenance. But for reasons I do not understand, no one ever gives DJ a hard time about this.

 

[markis10]

Well, no, pay and conditions at DJ would be much lower as DJ offshores at least 50% of its heavy maintenance. But for reasons I do not understand, no one ever gives DJ a hard time about this.

Not true, since JB came on board they have been keen to bring that work back onshore, by contrast you will find QF already does more than that percentage of heavy maint offshore.

Virgin Australia Group Executive of Operations, Sean Donohue, said today that during calendar year 2011, 66 per cent of the airline’s airframe maintenance was performed in Australia.

“We continue to grow our engineering and maintenance workforce in Australia,” Mr Donohue said.

“In the 2012 calendar year we will grow our engineering and maintenance workforce in Australia by 12 per cent.”
Virgin Australia has major engineering and maintenance bases in Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney, with significant line maintenance presences in Perth, Adelaide, Gold Coast and Canberra.

 

[ajca]

Not quite true, since JB came on board they have been keen to bring that work back onshore, by contrast you will find QF already does more than that percentage of heavy maint offshore.

It may be changing over time but QF says 90% of their heavy maintenance is done in Australia. Unless they're flat out lying... which seems unlikely given that this would be easily disproven if false.

 

[markis10]

It may be changing over time but QF says 90% of their heavy maintenance is done in Australia. Unless they're flat out lying... which seems unlikely given that this would be easily disproven if false.

Do you have a reference, all the A380 and 747 and 767 C and D checks are done overseas, that's pretty heavy. I know some expert on sunrise has said that but the fact is:

Qantas will, in 5 years time, outsource

All A380 heavy maintenance
All B787 heavy maintenance
All B737 OR A330 heavy maintenance
All engine overhaul
All component overhaul

Given they have shut the RB211 shop at SYD, now closed MEL and left AVV to the re configs only, it's no where near 90%.

I think the experts claims have been addressed nicely here:

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/451933-letter-geoffrey-thomas-aviation-expert.html

 

[ajca]

I agree with those who suggest that the engineer's unions are complicit in these job losses. I would move my company's workforce to Neptune if it meant no longer having to sit opposite Steve Purvinas at the negotiating table.

 

[ajca]

Do you have a reference, all the A380 and 747 and 767 C and D checks are done overseas, that's pretty heavy.

Even the AMWU says that 90% of Qantas's heavy maintenance is done in Australia. But it looks like this stat originated in Qantas's submission to the Senate Standing Committee on Rural Affairs, Transport and Interference in Free Markets last year.

 

[markis10]

Even the AMWU says that 90% of Qantas's heavy maintenance is done in Australia. But it looks like this stat originated in Qantas's submission to the Senate Standing Committee on Rural Affairs, Transport and Interference in Free Markets last year.

Yes, and it's a past fact, what percentage of the fleet is the A380s? It's all OS for them , when was the
last C or D check done on a 747 in Australia, same for 767, that just leaves the A330 and 737, both don't make up 90% of the fleet! 5% of the fleet is OS right now getting heavy maintence done.

 

[pauly7]

Wonder how many will take the
Jobs on offer at the expanded QF Brisbane heavy maintenance base...?

 

[Isochronous]

Purvinas has been talking on 774ABC. The usual spiel regarding why we must only have Australian engineers etc. But I did like his comment that Singaporean, Filipino, and Hong Kong engineers could not speak English well enough to read the technical manuals.

Did he really say that? wouldn't surprise me after Sheldon's racist comments about the so-called threat of "Asianisation". Someone needs to confront the trade unions and expose them for the racist mongrels they truly are.

 

[ric_melb]

Yes in fact Rafael Epstein said to him isn't that comment racist, so he backtracked some but not from the language issue.
Another interesting comment on ABC was from an engineer's wife, whose husband works at Avalon.
She said that the engineering base there was intended to be temporary and that the engineers there had been pleased their jobs have been available as long as they have.
I am sure there are many angles re engineering but I think if you have 3 bases in Australia it is highly likely one would have to shut sometime.

 

[codash1099]

I think the experts claims have been addressed nicely here:

Letter to Geoffrey Thomas (Aviation expert) - PPRuNe Forums

I wonder who wrote that letter? Would he have any reason to distort the facts?

Just asking.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

This is not true, the average licensed engineer is on around $170k per year, certainly not peanuts. Management: Qantas Engineers among the ?Highest Paid in the World?
Their demand for 15% over 3 years is almost an increase of 9k per year.

With a falling industry in some ways, skyhigh fuel prices, general local and international economic slowdowns and LCC competition, you would think they would be glad to have a high paying stable job in a fragile economy (plus all the discount flying perks.etc.)...?

I know during the GFC my previous company froze salary increases for everybody for 2 years (after employees voted mostly in favour for it) as we all saw the greater good of doing it, the company didn't do any redundancies and we weren't an unionised industry, so its give and take a bit, we got to keep our jobs during a time of recession, that is why unions are out of touch with business, some are too greedy and end up shooting their 'members' in the foot.

I agree entirely with you post cmon0005.

 

[Mal]

Interesting comments by Steve Purvinas:

STEVE PURVINAS: Yeah but the good news for us as a union - and we're quite outspoken in anything that we can get confirmed - we're going to sit down and go through the figures with the airline.

And if they've got some accountants there saying we can get a check done overseas 20 per cent cheaper at least we'll have the opportunity to say well, how much does it cost to repair those planes when they come back from overseas maintenance?

And we know that aircraft have come back before with hundreds of defects that have had to be repaired. They've gone onto the budgets, the workers here in Australia, which makes them look ineffective when in actual fact they're still performing outstandingly.

ALISON CALDWELL: Alan Joyce was saying that the workers, the work that's done here is 30 per cent more expensive than other work, 30 per cent dearer.

STEVE PURVINAS: Yeah, your work here may look 30 per cent more expensive but that doesn't take into account that a vast amount of their work is related to repairing aircraft that have been overseas and had shoddy maintenance carried out. So if we take all that into account these guys can put out the planes quicker than anywhere else.

Whenever they're done overseas they always come out late and they tend not to come out here with any defects at all.

The World Today - Qantas engineers 'among most competitive in the world' 16/02/2012

I'll let others consider this statement.... and make up their own mind.

 

[pauly7]

Interesting comments by Steve Purvinas:


The World Today - Qantas engineers 'among most competitive in the world' 16/02/2012

I'll let others consider this statement.... and make up their own mind.

Sigh.

I'd hate to see the shape of Virgins fleet then given pretty much everything is done overseas. Virgins planes must be about to fall out of the sky - every single last one of them according to old mate Steve.

 

[markis10]

Sigh.

I'd hate to see the shape of Virgins fleet then given pretty much everything is done overseas. Virgins planes must be about to fall out of the sky - every single last one of them according to old mate Steve.

Not true, all the e jets are serviced locally by JHAS who do a lot of the JQ work as well, including self generating business with tugs that err off the correct line!

 

[Undercover Brother]

Sigh.

I'd hate to see the shape of Virgins fleet then given pretty much everything is done overseas. Virgins planes must be about to fall out of the sky - every single last one of them according to old mate Steve.

Can't see the kiwis doing that bad of a job?

 

[whatmeworry]

Alan Joyce

 

[eastwest101]

Just as a comment - I do have a close family member whom has worked at QF maintenece as an aircraft engineer and they have expressed to me that they have sometimes seen some below standard engineering work come in from overseas which has required re-work here in Australia. This person has recently left QF anyway so has no real agenda or barrow to push anymore.

Not saying its widespread.