400 Qantas Jobs to go at Melbourne

[Mal]

Just as a comment - I do have a close family member whom has worked at QF maintenece as an aircraft engineer and they have expressed to me that they have sometimes seen some below standard engineering work come in from overseas which has required re-work here in Australia. This person has recently left QF anyway so has no real agenda or barrow to push anymore.

Not saying its widespread.

I have no issues with your comment. I am sure it happens. However, how often do the LAMES within Australia screw up? Quite often I expect, but the union (and their fellow workmates) would normally try to cover up such incidents.

 

[markis10]

There was a time when QF aircraft commanded a premium on the used market because of their maintenance, these days thats not the case with many going to scrap recently.

 

[codash1099]

There was a time when QF aircraft commanded a premium on the used market because of their maintenance, these days thats not the case with many going to scrap recently.

Could that have something to do with their age?

 

[markis10]

Could that have something to do with their age?

No, historically they have disposed of aircraft at the same age.

 

[docjames]

No, historically they have disposed of aircraft at the same age.

There was a time when QF aircraft commanded a premium on the used market because of their maintenance, these days thats not the case with many going to scrap recently.

I'm not sure how fair that is to blame on "overseas maintenance" - the demand for a 20+yo 744 now vs a 20+yo 743 ~ 15-20 years ago is quite a different market given the price of fuel. Similar argument with the 763s also. I dont know that the lack of demand is due to the maintenance, more the price of fuel and the stagnant gloabl economy (= lower freighter demand).

 

[markis10]

I'm not sure how fair that is to blame on "overseas maintenance" - the demand for a 20+yo 744 now vs a 20+yo 743 ~ 15-20 years ago is quite a different market given the price of fuel. Similar argument with the 763s also. I dont know that the lack of demand is due to the maintenance, more the price of fuel and the stagnant gloabl economy (= lower freighter demand).

Who is blaming it on overseas maintenance, I was just stating that the demand for QF jets used to be high because they were considered better than new. Given the ongoing 767 production as recently discussed, you would expect more of them to have headed to new owners, instead most of the 762s were scrapped as are some of the 763s likely to be.

 

[oz_mark]

There was a time when QF aircraft commanded a premium on the used market because of their maintenance, these days thats not the case with many going to scrap recently.

Who is blaming it on overseas maintenance, .

So which maintenance are you blaming?

 

[docjames]

So which maintenance are you blaming?

+1 to this question....

markis10[/B];617303]Who is blaming it on overseas maintenance, I was just stating that the demand for QF jets used to be high because they were considered better than new. Given the ongoing 767 production as recently discussed, you would expect more of them to have headed to new owners, instead most of the 762s were scrapped as are some of the 763s likely to be.

markis10[/B];617219]There was a time when QF aircraft commanded a premium on the used market because of their maintenance, these days thats not the case with many going to scrap recently.

 

[markis10]

So which maintenance are you blaming?

None specifically, it's a a statement of fact rather than blame that aircraft are not maintained to the standard that QF was once known for, probably due to price pressure in a number of areas, be it apprentice training or the lack there of, outsourcing and commercial pressure in general. The ugly sisters showed up how good local work can be, and the raft of issues UA came across with their Pan Am fleet acquisitions are also a good example of things not being as good as they seem!

 

[whatmeworry]

Seems there is another reason for retired QF planes being destroyed rather then sold.

Zemanovic, the head of Aircraft Demolition, a company that tears down and recycles unwanted planes, says his five-year-old business has never been stronger as airlines expand and replenish their fleets with fuel-efficient planes.
"This year, I expect to do double the work we did last year," he said. The company destroyed 24 planes in 2011, and an industry trade group estimates more than 12,000 aircraft will be retired in the next 20 years.

​

Planes booming, but will they crash?

 

[docjames]

None specifically, it's a a statement of fact rather than blame that aircraft are not maintained to the standard that QF was once known for, probably due to price pressure in a number of areas, be it apprentice training or the lack there of, outsourcing and commercial pressure in general. The ugly sisters showed up how good local work can be, and the raft of issues UA came across with their Pan Am fleet acquisitions are also a good example of things not being as good as they seem!

But do you really think it is the maintenance that's stopping them sell, or the fuel cost (especially for the 744s?

 

[markis10]

But do you really think it is the maintenance that's stopping them sell, or the fuel cost (especially for the 744s?

Given the backlog of 762s and 743s that did not sell, not to mention the 734s, yes, other airlines have moved their 744s on, yet QF have only got rid of one to date!

 

[mannej]

Not true, all the e jets are serviced locally by JHAS who do a lot of the JQ work as well, including self generating business with tugs that err off the correct line!

So what was the extra cost to JQ and DJ/VA with this quality piece of work?

And correct me if I am wrong, but there seemed to be no coverage what so ever.

 

[docjames]

Again, that's not due to maintenance, that's due to the selling market and lack of demand for these airframes.

"Other airlines may have moved them on" - how many are still in active duty elsewhere, how many are parked in the desert (cough UA/BA) or broken up (cough NW)?

ISTR seeing the QF 743s have been bought by Iran.

Given the backlog of 762s and 743s that did not sell, not to mention the 734s, yes, other airlines have moved their 744s on, yet QF have only got rid of one to date!

I dont dispute QF are having trouble selling, but it's not maintenance as you inferred - it's far wider than than, mostly going to fuel/operating costs.

 

[markis10]

Again, that's not due to maintenance, that's due to the selling market and lack of demand for these airframes.

"Other airlines may have moved them on" - how many are still in active duty elsewhere, how many are parked in the desert (cough UA/BA) or broken up (cough NW)?

ISTR seeing the QF 743s have been bought by Iran.





I dont dispute QF are having trouble selling, but it's not maintenance as you inferred - it's far wider than than, mostly going to fuel/operating costs.

Not all the 743s have been sold, you should know that as you drive by one on a regular basis, and I do believe its the quality of the aircraft thats affecting their resale potential, sure there are plenty in the desert, but its still very much an active market with sales every week for the 744s, just not with red tails. Skyliners averages between 3 and 10 per week for instance. So far this week we have seen SQ deliver 9VSPP (* Alliance paint scheme) to a new owner while a Northwest Bird was also sold to a new owner.

 

[docjames]

Not all the 743s have been sold, you should know that as you drive by one on a regular basis, and I do believe its the quality of the aircraft thats affecting their resale potential, sure there are plenty in the desert, but its still very much an active market with sales every week for the 744s, just not with red tails. Skyliners averages between 3 and 10 per week for instance. So far this week we have seen SQ deliver 9VSPP (* Alliance paint scheme) to a new owner while a Northwest Bird was also sold to a new owner.

How many of those sold have RR engines? Note I wasnt claiming all 743s were now heading to Iran.

I thought the one i see was retained some time ago to be cannibalised for parts + training. Agree that perhaps that's just a consequence of not being able to sell.

There's plenty of 744s and 734s available here:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/am/index.cfm?content=include/reports.cfm&pageid=m38072


Guess we disagree on the reasons why they cant sell them, but I guess in another way we agree - they cant sell them!

 

[pauly7]

Can't see the kiwis doing that bad of a job?

Hahahha don't even get the unions STARTED on the twin evils of NZ Pacific Bro or Jetconnect!!