2019 Federal Election Discussion

[Quickstatus]

We are lucky in Australia that we get to choose.

But not choose to vote or not vote, though there are ways around it

 

[Melburnian1]

Far from applicable to everyone. These are the valid reasons:

You can vote early either in person or by post if on election day you....

No one I know has ever been asked for a reason. Voting by post is convenient, and an added bonus is one doesn't have to dodge those handing out how to vote cards at an early voting centre. Whatever the election, voting in person may also mean waiting as the election officials slowly tick off each voter on the roll, and having to get to the EVC by car, public transport or other means.

 

[Melburnian1]

But not choose to vote or not vote, though there are ways around it

Compulsory voting is not the case in some other nations. Far better if we had optional voting: then only those who cared would elect MPs and Senators.

 

[Pushka]

Oh good grief. AEC controls our election and this is what you get when you try find an early voting booth on their website. I feel like I’ve gone back to Kindy. Who designed this BS?



Put in my postcode that is very close to CBD and got this - seriously? Then tried the “Show All Locations” button and it took me back to the beginning



So typed in 5000 which is CBD.
And only four booths for all of Adelaide.

 

[Hvr]

We are lucky in Australia that we get to choose.

I was the OIC of the EVC at MEL AP in 2013 and had a wonderful time interacting with voters. I saw many first time voters who understood the privilege they had in choosing their political representatives. They took quite a few photos of them casting their first vote to share with family and friends. Done appropriately with no staff or unknown people in the background it will be a wonderful memory.

It was a huge responsibility (and honour) to ensure the integrity of the voting process including the ballot papers and people's personal information. At the time this was one of the busiest EVCs in the country.

I also had many conversations with international visitors (despite being in the QF domestic terminal) who were very interested in our compulsory voting requirements, and realising that there was a benefit to compulsory voting.

The benefit is that with compulsory voting there must be every effort made by the AEC to allow people to vote. I heard many stories from US citizens where early or out of location voting was actively discouraged or at the whim of the election officials on duty.

The 'luck' we have in the Australian election system is the bipartisan approach to maintaining the independence of the AEC and state electoral commissions, in having fair electorates and transparent voting processes.

I was then part of the count team afterwards and as previously mentioned saw many interesting drawings and comments on ballot papers. Still, that's part of the process.

Oh and as for asking for a reason, well for out of state people it was easy and for locals, well they're at the airport flying out (who knows what way they were flying, we didn't care ) so that's covered. If asked all you have to do is say 'yes I'm eligible' and that's it.

 

[Melburnian1]

...
I also had many conversations with international visitors (despite being in the QF domestic terminal) who were very interested in our compulsory voting requirements, and realising that there was a benefit to compulsory voting.

The benefit is that with compulsory voting there must be every effort made by the AEC to allow people to vote. I heard many stories from US citizens where early or out of location voting was actively discouraged or at the whim of the election officials on duty.

The 'luck' we have in the Australian election system is the bipartisan approach to maintaining the independence of the AEC and state electoral commissions, in having fair electorates and transparent voting processes....

True democracy requires us to have voluntary voting. This was originally the case in Australia, but sadly, no more.

At polling booths, one sees a very large number of disenchanted voters who come in, against their will, and either vote informal or vote Labor/Greens.

Far better for democracy that results aren't skewed because of this cohort who don't care about politics voting by compulsion.

Hats off to those many countries that have voluntary voting.

Many reforms to the voting process have been advocated by Coalition MPs over the years but the ALP in particular has a huge vested interest in maintaining compulsory voting, preferably with as few identity checks on voters as possible. It was the political party most skilled in the 'vote early, vote often' modus operandi that I jokingly referred to in the heading.

Anyway, given your experience at MEL with the AEC, unless it's an omission by the AEC that's to be rectified in the list, why aren't there early voting centres at Melbourne and Sydney airports (and others, but I've not checked them) in 2019?

 

[pauly7]

I’m always travelling so usually postal vote.

I love voting in person at our local school if I can because they always put on a fete and bake sale so like supporting them. It’s a lovely community atmosphere.

The people handing out how to vote cards don’t bother me,

 

[Hvr]

why aren't there early voting centres at Melbourne and Sydney airports

I heard that space at MEL AP was given very grudgingly. The space we had, had no electricity and we had to fight hard for a secure place to store ballot papers/boxes etc.

Airport staff from all areas including airlines loved it and commented very favourably. We had many people come through security from the Virgin and international terminals to cast their vote.

At polling booths, one sees a very large number of disenchanted voters who come in, against their will, and either vote informal or vote Labor/Greens.

How do you know how they voted? We never discussed who to vote for, it was strictly forbidden. Nor would we have any discussion about the merits of any political party. Political neutrality is a very strict requirement to work for the AEC in any role.

We could tell people the voting process, i.e. the numbering system but never who to vote for.

 

[whughes3]

It is not compulsory to vote in Australia. It is compulsory to attend a polling place and have your name ticked off (or the equivalent). There is no requirement to record any preference on the ballot papers.

 

[clipped_wings]

Yeah, that’s what the PM said, ‘I have no idea what’s happening with these prefernce deals’. Plausible (really?) deniability,is a wonderous thing. I wonder what better offer the Libs made to clinch the deal with C Palmer.

Scott Morrison today was distancing himself from this innuendo, saying he does not wish to say anything that may infer his endorsement of Clive Palmer. Talk about Chinese Whispers.

 

[Melburnian1]

I heard that space at MEL AP was given very grudgingly. The space we had, had no electricity and we had to fight hard for a secure place to store ballot papers/boxes etc....We never discussed who to vote for, it was strictly forbidden. Nor would we have any discussion about the merits of any political party. Political neutrality is a very strict requirement to work for the AEC in any role.

We could tell people the voting process, i.e. the numbering system but never who to vote for.

Thank you for confirming what I suspected: that the airports don't want to be a part of the election process.

This is sadly typical of their greed. 'Community minded?' Like fun.

I did not suggest that you as an AEC official (as you say you once were) discussed who to vote for, or the merits of any political party. I did however suggest that those who vote begrudgingly largely vote for the left wing parties. That's been shown in academic studies. This one is from Switzerland but relevant to Australia:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ajps.12224

 

[get me outta here]

Extraordinary. The boss is not actually in charge we are supposed to believe.

Scott Morrison today was distancing himself from this innuendo, saying he does not wish to say anything that may infer his endorsement of Clive Palmer. Talk about Chinese Whispers.

 

[OATEK]

Extraordinary. The boss is not actually in charge we are supposed to believe.

Only if he wants to be, as is Bill Shorten. Look how hard Bill was trying to distance himself from Getup this week with their childish and offensive anti-Abbott ads. It was Bill who helped set up getup and served in an official capacity for a while, but now is going out of his way to pretend an arms-length relationship, just as ScoMo is with the rich fat clown.

 

[odysseus]

I did not suggest that you as an AEC official (as you say you once were) discussed who to vote for, or the merits of any political party. I did however suggest that those who vote begrudgingly largely vote for the left wing parties. That's been shown in academic studies. This one is from Switzerland but relevant to Australia:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ajps.12224

Without analysing the merits or applicability of that research, even if true how would "those who vote begrudgingly largely vote for the left wing parties" weaken democracy?

A democratic society has a government that best represents the views of the populace (whatever their views are i.e. whether you agree or disagree). Limiting to only those who are the most motivated to vote means that the country is only governed by a subset of views of the populace - which may well not be representative.

Further, it also opens the door to 'incentives' being offered to encourage people to vote, which has an even greater effect on weakening democracy.

 

[moa999]

Can't imagine many votes from a deal with Palmer anyway. Can't see he will have many volunteers to hand out How to Vote cards.
Preferences are pointless if no-one knows about them

 

[odysseus]

No one I know has ever been asked for a reason. Voting by post is convenient, and an added bonus is one doesn't have to dodge those handing out how to vote cards at an early voting centre. Whatever the election, voting in person may also mean waiting as the election officials slowly tick off each voter on the roll, and having to get to the EVC by car, public transport or other means.

Convenience isn't a reason - though I'd suspect most polling centres are within a similar range to a nearest post box on average - and nor is 'dodging those handing out how to vote cards.'

And just because you're not asked doesn't mean it's permitted. If things get abused they may also get cracked down on. Imagine the hit to democracy if everyone had to get a stat dec signed by a JP just to lodge an absent vote, and they removed postal votes too.

 

[love_the_life]

True democracy requires us to have voluntary voting. This was originally the case in Australia, but sadly, no more.

At polling booths, one sees a very large number of disenchanted voters who come in, against their will, and either vote informal or vote Labor/Greens.

Far better for democracy that results aren't skewed because of this cohort who don't care about politics voting by compulsion.

Hats off to those many countries that have voluntary voting.

Many reforms to the voting process have been advocated by Coalition MPs over the years but the ALP in particular has a huge vested interest in maintaining compulsory voting, preferably with as few identity checks on voters as possible. It was the political party most skilled in the 'vote early, vote often' modus operandi that I jokingly referred to in the heading.

Anyway, given your experience at MEL with the AEC, unless it's an omission by the AEC that's to be rectified in the list, why aren't there early voting centres at Melbourne and Sydney airports (and others, but I've not checked them) in 2019?

Voters are not necessarily disenchanted and voting against their will if they vote Labor or Greens. Many prefer those parties to the alternatives. Being a secret ballot no one should know who people voted for unless they share that information.

 

[Pushka]

Can't imagine many votes from a deal with Palmer anyway. Can't see he will have many volunteers to hand out How to Vote cards.
Preferences are pointless if no-one knows about them

I find that the women he is using on the TV appear quite effective to be honest. And if people are oblivious to CP himself, and let’s face it, there are a whole lot of people who just don’t tune in to anything political, then he may just have more of an influence than we expect.

So many people out there just don’t care, and they vote!

 

[love_the_life]

Oh good grief. AEC controls our election and this is what you get when you try find an early voting booth on their website. I feel like I’ve gone back to Kindy. Who designed this BS?

View attachment 161390

Put in my postcode that is very close to CBD and got this - seriously? Then tried the “Show All Locations” button and it took me back to the beginning

View attachment 161391

So typed in 5000 which is CBD.
And only four booths for all of Adelaide.

There are usually only a few early voting centres so doesn’t surprise me that there are only 4 listed.

 

[Hvr]

Preferences are pointless if no-one knows about them

I'll beg to disagree. Preferences have given many a politician their seat.

My belief is that whilst preferences are important so that the voter's choices are respected, too many people don't actually understand or even give enough thought to where their preferences flow. They blindly follow the how to vote cards of their chosen party.

If more people thought through their votes we may get a different sort of parliament.