Qantas (Cathay) cancelled flight - who pays extra nights accommodation

[amaroo]

I hope things work out for you Pushka.

Look on the bright side! It's Hong Kong - what a fantastic city to be stuck with an extra day. Maybe this is some good karma coming your way after the horrendous weather/power/water issues you have been having.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

 

[Pushka]

But I'm not able to go through Cathay as it's a Qantas booking.

However I cannot see where a confirmed booking can be cancelled at the whim of an operator and absolutely no mention of any compensation - for food, accommodation etc has been made. The cancellation has nothing to do with wind, equipment breakdown etc but merely to do with the whim of the airline. It was booked months ago!

Normally I'd jump at an extra day but I will have been away from the family and husband for almost a month and have been in HK already for four days. It was time for me to leave.

I think it's a principle thing.

I think it's kinda arrogant that airlines might apologise sometimes for being just five minutes late for reasons beyond their control; this time it's a deliberate cancellation of almost 24 hours delay, extra costs, and not an apology in sight. Not even from Red Roo. An apology for inconvenience might be a start.

The new QP had better be open.

 

[anat0l]

But I'm not able to go through Cathay as it's a Qantas booking.

However I cannot see where a confirmed booking can be cancelled at the whim of an operator and absolutely no mention of any compensation - for food, accommodation etc has been made. The cancellation has nothing to do with wind, equipment breakdown etc but merely to do with the whim of the airline. It was booked months ago!

Call Cathay and describe the situation. Maybe you can get them to instigate a schedule change request due to involuntary cancellation, which will be received by QF, who will then re-issue the e-ticket (i.e. a message "Your booking has changed"). (This is a similar process to say when you call the airline to reaccommodate you on another flight due to cancellation, but your ticket was booked by a travel agent). But they will likely say, of course, they can't do squat about your ticket. Given, fine.

Press them about compensation or a night's accommodation. That doesn't require touching the ticket; they don't (or shouldn't) even have to attach it to the ticket. They just need to send you the relevant documentation for the process they decide (e.g. hotel arrangements, payment in cheque, etc.)

They could very well say, sorry - no dice. So be it - you tried, but CX would suck in that regard.

To be honest, CX might be hard pressed to put you on another flight with a connection even if it were on a CX ticket, since CX doesn't have any codesharing with QF domestic flights, and moreover to that they would be unlikely to list any QF operated flights in their options (viz. if you looked for flights on the CX website, not a single one of them would have a QF flight on them).

Airlines should do the right thing by their customers and provide some form of compensation when the changes in times are great (e.g. greater than 4 hours). Unfortunately, at least in this case there is no legal forcing. This kind of change happens frequently across the world. It is a mess to resolve without legal standing, and even then. Naturally, where the plating and operating carriers are not the same, this complicates things further, even though frequently, it is the operator of the affected flight who bears the responsibility.

 

[Pushka]

I'll try Cathay then and see what they say. Cheers amaroo and anato1. And I think you're right - they won't be able to do anything about getting me from Melbourne to Adelaide.

Sigh. At the time I had the choice of the A380 through Sydney or this direct flight to try out the Cathay J class that everyone raves about. Bad move.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But I'm not able to go through Cathay as it's a Qantas booking.

However I cannot see where a confirmed booking can be cancelled at the whim of an operator and absolutely no mention of any compensation - for food, accommodation etc has been made. The cancellation has nothing to do with wind, equipment breakdown etc but merely to do with the whim of the airline. It was booked months ago!

but there is! (not compensation per se - but they will get you there asap)

the CX conditions of carriage.

They have agreed for a flight cancellation they will accommodate you on another service. At no extra charge.

This is a matter of QF liaising with CX to get you the other flight. Just as a travel agent would do for you if this was a paid ticket.

well - that's my view.

Even though CX may try and get you to go to QF - there is nothing to stop CX advising you of your rights, and what they can offer you. If they say - we'll rebook you via SYD to ADL then QF can reissue that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

To be honest, CX might be hard pressed to put you on another flight with a connection even if it were on a CX ticket, since CX doesn't have any codesharing with QF domestic flights, and moreover to that they would be unlikely to list any QF operated flights in their options (viz. if you looked for flights on the CX website, not a single one of them would have a QF flight on them).

as per CX contract of carriage - they agree to put you on another carrier... FOC. doesn't need to be a CX flight.

 

[Pushka]

You know, it's more the fact they've cancelled the flight and not a shred of concern for the inconvenience and extra cost.

 

[anat0l]

but there is!

the CX conditions of carriage.

They have agreed for a flight cancellation they will accommodate you on another service. At no extra charge.

This is a matter of QF liaising with CX to get you the other flight. Just as a travel agent would do for you if this was a paid ticket.

well - that's my view.

Even though CX may try and get you to go to QF - there is nothing to stop CX advising you of your rights, and what they can offer you. If they say - we'll rebook you via SYD to ADL then QF can reissue that.

I think almost every airlines' CoC has such a term.

Of course, CX may throw back at Pushka that a mere day is "reasonable" in terms of getting her home, attempting to argue that they have discharged their responsibility as per the CoC. Naturally, it is not, but airlines can be a stubborn bunch.

CX have the powers to change their own booking - they can't touch the underlying ticket, but they should be able to instigate a "schedule / booking change" which the travel agent (QF in this case) will accept in order to re-issue the e-ticket. Having to go through QF to liaise with CX is possible, though you'll need to get a good agent, and frankly that's ridiculous as it's CX passing the buck to the travel agent when CX were at fault (in this case, it also binds the passenger on QF because the latter will not consent to a change unless it can find award space - again, ridiculous buck passing).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think almost every airlines' CoC has such a term.

the CX one is quite different from the QF one.

The CX one I quoted above already. The QF one just says they will reaccommodate you on another QF service OR refund your money.

CX says they will accommodate on another carrier.

 

[anat0l]

as per CX contract of carriage - they agree to put you on another carrier... FOC. doesn't need to be a CX flight.

It doesn't have to be on their carrier alone, however it is not up to the passenger to make that choice. CX will argue their side as to what is "reasonable" within what they will deliver to the customer. They will then make the ultimate choice. If they chose to make choices which involve no QF flights, that is their prerogative. The condition simply says they can consider other airlines at no extra cost to the passenger. This condition in the CoC is not a carte blanche to the customer to dictate what option they want.

You can give them a hard time about it, but again this is not a passenger-sided forcing condition.

You know, it's more the fact they've cancelled the flight and not a shred of concern for the inconvenience and extra cost.

Let's not jump to conclusions yet until you call CX and see what they say.

 

[Pushka]

First Baileys is down. It's been a hard week. It isn't over yet.

First world problems I guess.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It doesn't have to be on their carrier alone, however it is not up to the passenger to make that choice. CX will argue their side as to what is "reasonable" within what they will deliver to the customer. They will then make the ultimate choice. If they chose to make choices which involve no QF flights, that is their prerogative. The condition simply says they can consider other airlines at no extra cost to the passenger. This condition in the CoC is not a carte blanche to the customer to dictate what option they want.

You can give them a hard time about it, but again this is not a passenger-sided forcing condition.



Let's not jump to conclusions yet until you call CX and see what they say.

the complication here is that the ticket has been issued by QF.

if it was a CX issued ticket then the CoC are absolute. CX must accommodate you on one of their services or if that is not suitable, on another carrier (within reason of course). (usual exceptions for weather/ATC and/or when E261 applies.)

 

[JohnK]

Sigh. At the time I had the choice of the A380 through Sydney or this direct flight to try out the Cathay J class that everyone raves about. Bad move.

In my experience Cathay are poor when it comes to customer servive. On more than one occasion. In fact they haven't got it right very often at all.

Which warped mind thinks it is OK to offer a business class customer and Oneworld Emerald after a missed connection that was Cathay's fault a seat on the last flight the next night when 4 other flights had availability and then offer 2 unrelated males on different PNR's the one hotel room?

 

[Pushka]

An update. Cathay have advised I need to go through Qantas to revert to the same departure night. Qantas can request this from Cathay but no guarantee as it's a J award flight. It will route through Sydney or Melbourne and add a minimum of five hours.

There's no offer of one nights accommodation or food if I stick with their original reschedule.

Cathay have provided me with a letter for possible insurance claim but I will wait until I return to claim in case there are more significant claimable events in the month I'm away.

I've decided to stay the extra night. Might be nice if the new QP is open and I'll consume a fair share of sparkling (I'm guessing not the real stuff) before departure.

 

[anat0l]

Cathay have advised I need to go through Qantas to revert to the same departure night. Qantas can request this from Cathay...

There's no offer of one nights accommodation or food if I stick with their original reschedule.

That wasn't their words, was it? If you stick to the original reschedule? Basically it's "accommodation or food - get stuffed".

Weak, Cathay. However, as mentioned, well within their rights.

I've decided to stay the extra night. Might be nice if the new QP is open and I'll consume a fair share of sparkling (I'm guessing not the real stuff) before departure.

Wouldn't hold my breath, but it would be nice for novelty. Only redeeming feature here is that CX will have good lounges for you to wait in, with Champagne and, if you are a WP, nice relaxation spaces (cabanas).

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Our Reservations team can assist with the rebooking process, subject to Award seats being available on alternative flights.

I'd be very worried if my flight was cancelled and I had to buy another ticket using cash at current prices because there were no award seats...

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

I'd be very worried if my flight was cancelled and I had to buy another ticket using cash at current prices because there were no award seats...

It is pretty poor, but worth remembering it was CX who cancelled the flight therefore they should be reaccommodating the pax.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'd be very worried if my flight was cancelled and I had to buy another ticket using cash at current prices because there were no award seats...

It is pretty poor, but worth remembering it was CX who cancelled the flight therefore they should be reaccommodating the pax.

That wasn't their words, was it? If you stick to the original reschedule? Basically it's "accommodation or food - get stuffed".

Weak, Cathay. However, as mentioned, well within their rights.



Wouldn't hold my breath, but it would be nice for novelty. Only redeeming feature here is that CX will have good lounges for you to wait in, with Champagne and, if you are a WP, nice relaxation spaces (cabanas).

CX canot touch the ticket because it has been issued by an agent on its behalf (QF).

QF can hold CX to the terms of its conditions of carriage and ask the passenger to be re-routed on another airline, and QF can then reissue the ticket.

This is the same with bookings via USDM for example - schedule change and you can approach the operating airline to create inventory to accommodate you, but the ticketing has to be done by the original carrier.

Just because QF has taken the position to not accommodate passengers on other airlines doesn't mean they need to apply the same rules when they ticket on other carriers.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

CX canot touch the ticket because it has been issued by an agent on its behalf (QF).

QF can hold CX to the terms of its conditions of carriage and ask the passenger to be re-routed on another airline, and QF can then reissue the ticket.

This is the same with bookings via USDM for example - schedule change and you can approach the operating airline to create inventory to accommodate you, but the ticketing has to be done by the original carrier.

Just because QF has taken the position to not accommodate passengers on other airlines doesn't mean they need to apply the same rules when they ticket on other carriers.

At the end of the day it's not the customers fault and they shouldn't be left picking up the pieces - especially when most flyers would not know or have access to this knowledge.

Codeshares are dangerous in this regard... each airline blames the other and the customer gets screwed.

 

[anat0l]

CX canot touch the ticket because it has been issued by an agent on its behalf (QF).

CX cannot directly alter the underlying e-ticket, but they can issue a schedule change / flight change for that passenger on their booking so that QF can then re-issue the e-ticket.

Exactly what they did in the case of the OP when they cancelled her original flight - they had to send a change request to the booking (for the flight the next day) which was then effected through QF (the agent) and thus the e-ticket was reissued (sometimes this reissue doesn't happen until you contact the agent to confirm it so).

The fact that CX didn't want to do this is odd because they could well do it, especially under the pretense that the original flight was cancelled.