Has tonight's EK414 arrival a dispensation to break SYD curfew?

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Saying that, an article suggested that a high volume of complaints in PER were made by a very very very small minority.

I now live right under the flight path into Perth, near Cannington train station to give you an idea. The light fitting in our bathroom rattles when the planes come over.

The worst times are 2200 to 2300 hrs when the internationals take off, and 0130 when some land, then the early wakeup from 0515 when the FIFO flights start taking off.

Have I complained? NO, there is no point, I chose to live here, and I like to fly out at 2200hrs and have landed at 0130 previously. I don't want Perth to have further reduced services.
 
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realistically what does it say about Australia if we want to inconvenience several hundred passengers, some of whom would be tourists, because a sick passenger delayed an incoming flight by 14 minutes?

So one or two people on the ground potentially lose 14 minutes sleep, but we show Australia to be inflexible and potentially cause every passenger on board to be diverted to another city, have to go to all the trouble of going to hotels and then miss appointments and work?

Let's just cut the nose off to spite the face. Lose hotel bookings, lose tourist income, lose work hours, force people to take an extra day's leave just for 14 minutes.

Must be a boring suburb to live in around Sydney airport... the whole community in bed asleep by 11pm, never a birthday party that runs late, never a night out at a club or pub, no late shows on television, no New year's eve celebrations (ok the 930pm kiddies fireworks then straight home to bed).

I think realistically, the residents who support the curfew couldn't give a flying <expletive>. I think you're kind of assuming that communities (especially those who are most in support of the curfew) are well versed in encompassing the various views of all parties who are affected by this curfew. In which case your assumption (or "trust") is sorely misplaced, to put it absolutely diplomatically. (This kind of behaviour of communities is not much different to many other applications - e.g. proximity to industry or the like - but this is likely one of the most pronounced examples in the country of a community with absolutely no room to bargain or willingness to contribute ideas towards a solution).

To be completely fair, claims of "lost hotel bookings, lost tourist income, etc." are rather far fetched too; if, at best, merely unjustified. They are usually accompanied by inflated or worst case scenario figures to make them look like that. Fact is, Sydney is here to stay, and airlines fight for limited spots to bring more services here, in spite of the prevailing conditions. I have not really seen any carriers uproot their services from Sydney because they are being adversely affected by the curfew. I certainly don't see EK removing SYD services and giving them to, say, MEL or ADL, then relying on QF to connect the relevant pax to SYD, even if they are potentially staring down the barrel of $1.5 million in fines.

There's a bit of stupidity on many sides here, as whichever parties involved (from SACL up to the respective governments) have known about movement restrictions, the curfew and a burgeoning Sydney airport anyway in terms of capacity; how many years and still there is not settled decision as to how all of these obstacles can be overcome, or even Sydney's second (or replacement) airport?

It'll be interesting to see the trend of dispensations this year compared to last year, and more acutely how this matches with noise complaints (barring the obvious vexatious and frivolous ones). (My hunch is that it will not be terribly different from previous, but we may see it reported on more often).
 
To be completely fair, claims of "lost hotel bookings, lost tourist income, etc." are rather far fetched too; if, at best, merely unjustified. They are usually accompanied by inflated or worst case scenario figures to make them look like that.

I'm dealing specifically with the individual flight in question from yesterday. Lost hotel bookings, lost tours for tourists. Lost days at work for those who live in AU.

Let's totally muck up the arrangements of 300 people for the benefit of who? And for what?

I'm not suggesting for one minute EK or anyone else is going to cancel their flights to SYD.
 
I stayed at Crowne Plaza Coogee Beach for a few nights.

OMG when the morning curfew was lifted! An experience I'll never forget!

Stay under a flight path for a few nights (or mornings) and then decide about curfews.

Of course the other solution is to move the airport more outside the city. Works in other cities - it seems.
 
I'm dealing specifically with the individual flight in question from yesterday. Lost hotel bookings, lost tours for tourists. Lost days at work for those who live in AU.

Let's totally muck up the arrangements of 300 people for the benefit of who? And for what?

So the residents under the flight path can be guaranteed at best 7 hours of undisturbed sleep.

**** happens, as we see often on AFF. We often spout out, "That's what travel insurance is for." Oh well!

Certainly, which resident in support of the curfew is likely to care about any of those problems? They will care and raise a problem if they hear excessive noise, though, which could be detrimental to the continued operation of the airport (or, more precisely, the viability of the sitting MP in retaining that seat).
 
This is madness. A 1 in 1000 ++ event. Of course approval should be automatic for outliers - especially when Emirates has its foot down. And a 380 is modern and quiet - unlike a 707!

I'd like to see who would NOT approve it - name and shame please.
 
I'd like to see who would NOT approve it - name and shame please.

You like do to some door-knocking? I'd say you'll need a few sheets for signatures - some of those affected electorates are pretty big. :p
 
So the residents under the flight path can be guaranteed at best 7 hours of undisturbed sleep.

**** happens, as we see often on AFF. We often spout out, "That's what travel insurance is for." Oh well!

Certainly, which resident in support of the curfew is likely to care about any of those problems? They will care and raise a problem if they hear excessive noise, though, which could be detrimental to the continued operation of the airport (or, more precisely, the viability of the sitting MP in retaining that seat).

that's why I said it must be the most boring place on earth to live. Everyone in bed and lights out by 11. No parties. No going out for a night on the town. (etc etc)

this was a rare occasion caused by an ill passenger.

As for the earlier point of living under the flight path... the whole of London experiences that. You get used to it.

In Melbourne i live less than a couple of hundred metres from a hospital helipad. We get air ambulance flying just a couple hundred feet over our houses at all times of the night. It happens most nights and most of the time you sleep right through it.

Sorry but I just don't see the justification in diverting a whole plane load of pax to MEL for a 14 minute breach once in a blue moon. Total inconvenience to satisfy a few on the ground.

Anyway - sense prevailed last night.
 
And a 380 is modern and quiet - unlike a 707! I'd like to see who would NOT approve it - name and shame please.

My stay at Crowne Plaza Coogee Beach was not so long ago. I took a look at the things overhead making the incredible noise. They all seemed latest models (or perhaps just a few years old).
 
As for the earlier point of living under the flight path... the whole of London experiences that. You get used to it.

But London does have a curfew (or sorts): "The ‘night period’ is 23:00 to 07:00 hours local during which period the noisiest types of aircraft (classified QC/8 and QC/16) may not be scheduled to land or take-off."
 
Point Proven re London. I suggest the only downside is making Sydney Airport more valuable if curfew restrictions eased, while screwing a 2nd Sydney Airport. But absolutes are always stupid, as is a hard line in the sand. Fine the B**sards $1 and tell the electorate they were fined = everyone happy.
 
that's why I said it must be the most boring place on earth to live. Everyone in bed and lights out by 11. No parties. No going out for a night on the town. (etc etc)

Well, who is to say some of those people aren't good at lodging nuisance complaints against other causes of noise in that area.

I suppose they're also all thinking that it's much quieter to have a party than to land an A380.

this was a rare occasion caused by an ill passenger.

When did this happen? At the beginning of the flight (i.e. before take off), viz. passenger was ill on the ground, offloaded or comforted before take off, etc.?

Not that that shouldn't affect the dispensation process anyway (whether it be granted or denied). If the pax was ill during the flight, again that should have almost no bearing.

As for the earlier point of living under the flight path... the whole of London experiences that. You get used to it.

Obviously, some don't. Besides, it's not usually London city which yells about the noise, it's the immediate areas around Heathrow. That, combined with other environmental concerns, are one of the key stakeholder groups which are severely hampering any efforts to expand Heathrow with new buildings and new runways. (I think they should go with that Britannia idea).

MEL may not have a curfew and you may be used to such noise, but if that housing development gets approved around Tullamarine, suffice to say I wouldn't think for a second that you've heard the last of the word, 'curfew'. Similar for Canberra, though that has already been quite pre-empted - people want the housing and they thus don't want Canberra Airport expanded. Although Brisbane is currently beleaguered with expansion problems due to lack of runways, it too is coming into the firing line of persistent noise complaints which may result in curfews imposed on the airport, especially after the expansion of operations at Brisbane starts in earnest.

In Melbourne i live less than a couple of hundred metres from a hospital helipad. We get air ambulance flying just a couple hundred feet over our houses at all times of the night. It happens most nights and most of the time you sleep right through it.

I know you're trying to exemplify a point, but suffice to say if someone were to raise a noise grievance with intent to limit or prohibit the movement of ambulances (road or air), I'd say they should go jump. When someone's life is earnestly at stake, there's no room for someone else who merely has lost a few winks (or at worst, one night) of sleep.

Slightly different with SYD airport as not all those flights are emergencies; all you're doing is inconveniencing a bunch of passengers with non-critical (in the "grand scheme" of things) affairs. Or at least, that's the rationale. (Lucky the residents haven't spoken up too much about the small freight and mail planes throughout the night).

Sorry but I just don't see the justification in diverting a whole plane load of pax to MEL for a 14 minute breach once in a blue moon. Total inconvenience to satisfy a few on the ground.

Anyway - sense prevailed last night.

I don't see the justification mainly because it was merely 14 minutes late (wouldn't care if it were a plane of 50 passengers or 500 passengers). If it were 140 minutes late, different thing again (though at that point, it might have been a toss up whether the flight would have operated at all, unless it were due to something like adverse whether en route to Sydney).
 
MEL may not have a curfew and you may be used to such noise, but if that housing development gets approved around Tullamarine, suffice to say I wouldn't think for a second that you've heard the last of the word, 'curfew'. Similar for Canberra, though that has already been quite pre-empted - people want the housing and they thus don't want Canberra Airport expanded. Although Brisbane is currently beleaguered with expansion problems due to lack of runways, it too is coming into the firing line of persistent noise complaints which may result in curfews imposed on the airport, especially after the expansion of operations at Brisbane starts in earnest.

I am hoping they do not pander to the minority. As far as I am concerned if you buy a house near an airport, there is no recourse. As we have seen the Close Essendon Airport group has had no effect on closing the airport down either...
 
But London does have a curfew (or sorts): "The ‘night period’ is 23:00 to 07:00 hours local during which period the noisiest types of aircraft (classified QC/8 and QC/16) may not be scheduled to land or take-off."

It does. But I worked night shift in London for a month or so and I managed to sleep during the day. With aircraft, noise and all sorts of other stuff going on.

We are living in cities.

The SYD curfew is what it is. But once every now and then things happen and so there was a breach of curfew. i would suggest the 'harm done' was probably not that great.

It's an A380, with 400+ pax. Maybe 400 people on the ground were all woken up and complained today to the relevant authority.
 
The SMH article would hardly be welcomed by Emirates. We are a long way from a Federal election, but perhaps there will be one or two letters published by the SMH about the airport noise issue.

Does anyone who lives in Sydney know if the 'Tele' or 'SMH' occasionally still have letters about this public policy issue, or is the community silent (pun intended)?
 
Emirates are now in a partnership with Qantas, so they must also help share the negative news in the media.

On the other hand, pax are now more likely to fly EK since they know they're more likely to be able to land during curfew hours.
 
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Although Brisbane is currently beleaguered with expansion problems due to lack of runways, it too is coming into the firing line of persistent noise complaints which may result in curfews imposed on the airport, especially after the expansion of operations at Brisbane starts in earnest.

I recall a news report a few months back, which (from memory) highlighted the statistic that more than 50% of the noise complaints about BNE came from one resident.
 
I can see both sides of this issue. Yes, the curfew is a nuisance, and many airlines would certainly prefer it to be gone or extended so that they could adjust their schedules and / or add new services. And yes, the vast majority of real estate owners in the area would certainly have known that they were living near an airport.

However, if people have bought real estate after the introduction of the curfew, shouldn't they also have the reasonable expectation that it would remain in place? Or at the very least, that any proposed changes would both include them in discussions, and possibly include a compensatory payment for the subsequent likely loss of value of their properties?

There may not be that many complainants at the moment, but remove the curfew and I dare say that numbers would skyrocket.
 
However, if people have bought real estate after the introduction of the curfew, shouldn't they also have the reasonable expectation that it would remain in place? Or at the very least, that any proposed changes would both include them in discussions, and possibly include a compensatory payment for the subsequent likely loss of value of their properties?

I'm sure the airport was there first.
 
Why not think out side the square?! (Whenever they stop procrastinating and build the second airport) build it 10kms off shore on reclaimed land (it's probably do-able but will cost a tonne of $$$ given the water depths, currents etc). Have an underground rail linking it up directly to Central Station. Remove the curfew restrictions as planes can fly over water and bingo, touchdown.

If anyone's been to Male, Maldives .... that's the idea that I am having in my head :)
 
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