loss of Qantas frequent flyer points

[opusman]

And Markis10 - you may not be crowned AFF Moderator of the Year, but you have just been awarded Lawyer of the Millenium for that hair-splitting judgement that Activity does not mean you are Active.

Also the expiration of SC's does not count as Activity, which further underlines the case that this "Last Activity" terminology implies qualifying activity. If this is not the case then I call out that this is very misleading.

Read the T&C's again. They say nothing about "Activity" - yes this term is used on the website, but the T&C's do not use this term at all. Instead they are quite clear that you must earn or redeem points to remain an active member. Those are the terms that are used:

...end of the 18th consecutive month for which the Member has not earned Points or Status Credits or redeemed Points...

Arguing the toss about what the term "activity" means is pointless since the T&C's do not use that term anyway.

 

[Moody]

Read the T&C's again. They say nothing about "Activity" - yes this term is used on the website, but the T&C's do not use this term at all. Instead they are quite clear that you must earn or redeem points to remain an active member. Those are the terms that are used:

Arguing the toss about what the term "activity" means is pointless since the T&C's do not use that term anyway.

And I say that presenting the user's Summary information in this way ...


... is VERY MISLEADING if the term "Last Activity" has no relation to the 18-month points expiry clause immediately below. In fact I am willing to lay money on the opinion that a court of law would agree with me.

 

[Finale]

My partner's father lost about 350,000 points but the agent was very helpful. She asked what hotels he stayed the past year. He pretty much stayed at the Sheraton but luckily just before the points expired, he had a couple of nights in the Sebel Kirkton Park which was eligible for QFF points. Glad he got all the points back.

 

[opusman]

I'd be willing to lay money on the opinion that a court of law would say that the sentence "Points will not expire provided you earn or use points (excluding family transfers) at least once every 18 months" is pretty clear in meaning and intent.

 

[mannej]

I'd be willing to lay money on the opinion that a court of law would say that the sentence "Points will not expire provided you earn or use points (excluding family transfers) at least once every 18 months" is pretty clear in meaning and intent.

How is it not clear in meaning and intent?

 

[JohnK]

Does anyone here care? Some do, but I'm afraid most of them are laughing at you.

I do not quite agree with the mentality of telling someone I told you so. Irrelevant whose fault it was no point in rubbing it in.

But one thing confuses me ...... you said your daughter flew on award tickets from someone else's points (yours presumably). I'm almost sure that when I did a similar thing with my kids the flight counted as activity and reset the clock. Almost sure.

It could possibly count as an activity if you had the person QFF number in the award booking.

 

[markis10]

And Markis10 - you may not be crowned AFF Moderator of the Year, but you have just been awarded Lawyer of the Millenium for that hair-splitting judgement that Activity does not mean you are Active.

Also the expiration of SC's does not count as Activity, which further underlines the case that this "Last Activity" terminology implies qualifying activity. If this is not the case then I call out that this is very misleading.


I think we need Red Roo to clarify the position ....

Account Activity does not equal Active member by definition (as defined by the terms and conditions) which is what I said, hardly a judgement of mine when its a concise version that drops the context. No clarification needed in the terms and conditions.

 

[JohnK]

I'm still puzzled by the definition of "Activity". here is a snapshot of my son's Activity page


Ok - it may be too hard to read ... but his Last Activity is Apr 2013, and all that happened that month was a Classic Award flight (on my points). So I am wondering if this is an error in calculation or publishing. I am not going to experiment on my son's account, but I am wondering whether the displayed date and the actual date could be in conflict. This could potentially flow on to the warning email not being sent before the guillotine came down. There have been a few disgruntled posters who claimed to have never seen the email warning that Qantas insists was sent.

Just postulating .....

What worries me is if the date of last activity is not accurate on the QFF summary page how would someone know points were expiring?

A message on the account at T-60 days? That is not good enough. Or a non-existant email that Qantas has supposedly sent but not received by almost every report we have had on AFF.

 

[opusman]

How is it not clear in meaning and intent?

I didn't say it wasn't

 

[Moody]

I'd be willing to lay money on the opinion that a court of law would say that the sentence "Points will not expire provided you earn or use points (excluding family transfers) at least once every 18 months" is pretty clear in meaning and intent.

My son DID use points to fly in April 2013 - how could he have flown otherwise? So by pedantic logic (which seems popular on this thread) he has fulfilled the requirements to be "Active"

Case closed.

 

[medhead]

I'd be willing to lay money on the opinion that a court of law would say that the sentence "Points will not expire provided you earn or use points (excluding family transfers) at least once every 18 months" is pretty clear in meaning and intent.

Meaning, intent and CONTEXT. A date is given (the activity date) then the statement that is clear in meaning and intent, but is (potentially) misleading in context of how and where it is presented.

Context is king.

 

[fersea]

It sounds to me like the OPs daughter took flights but her FF number was not on the flight. Perhaps this is the loophole, similar to the hotel example. If one of these flights were in the past three months could she claim the flight admittedly getting zero points but having activity.

Of course that is assuming that if you take a flight using someone else's points it counts as an activity, something that seems to be subject to conjecture.

Mind you if the OP is going to come on here and insult people who don't fall over crying for him then he can get stuffed as far as I am concerned.

 

[footy99]

It's easy to feel for the OP here. He's the same as a thousand others with the identical complaint on here. Unfortunately it is his own error in not reading the T&Cs that caused it.

I've done it before with travel insurance. The first instinct is to get angry and try to blame the company for not doing what you want. But ultimately it is just trying to project the guilt felt for not properly researching onto someone else.

 

[opusman]

My son DID use points to fly in April 2013 - how could he have flown otherwise? So by pedantic logic (which seems popular on this thread) he has fulfilled the requirements to be "Active"

When did he book that flight? That's when the points were deducted - not when he flew.

It's points activity that matters. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[JohnK]

Can someone please point me to the QFF website and where it states the expiry dates of QFF points?

 

[Pvcmenace]

All of these things ring true to my family and I. There seems to be an element of what I can tell people but what is listened too or absorbed. At the end of the day they have no ability to pre book and make the most of what is offered to them, and the result is flights that are booked TT, VF or JQ will be booked even thought QF flights can be cheaper. They have no concept of using the information provided here to help them, even if I tell them myself. I relegate them to the hopeless cause and deserve everything they (don't) get.

 

[footy99]

Can someone please point me to the QFF website and where it states the expiry dates of QFF points?

9.2.2 All Points held in a Qantas Frequent Flyer account of a non-Active Member will expire at midnight Sydney, Australia time at the end of the 18th consecutive month for which the Member has not earned Points or Status Credits or redeemed Points (excluding any transfer of Points to or from an Eligible Family Member).

And at the top of your summary whenever you sign in:

Note: Points will not expire provided you earn or use points (excluding family transfers) at least once every 18 months.

 

[Moody]

When did he book that flight? That's when the points were deducted - not when he flew.

It's points activity that matters. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

And yet some fail to grasp it.

My son did not did not book the classic award flight - I did. My son flew on the classic award flight in April this year, hence using points, hence resetting his activity date. Makes sense to me.

If you are still struggling with the concept then think of it as a dynamic family transfer and redemption in one fell swoop.

 

[JohnK]

And at the top of your summary whenever you sign in:

Note: Points will not expire provided you earn or use points (excluding family transfers) at least once every 18 months.

So where is the last activity date of points earned along with the expiry date? Do you need to go into a detailed list of your transactions? Surely it is not up to the individual to determine the expiry date.

Qantas in this case has it way too easy. Could this be worth a challenge with the ombudsman?

 

[JohnPhelan]

So where is the last activity date of points earned along with the expiry date? Do you need to go into a detailed list of your transactions? Surely it is not up to the individual to determine the expiry date.

Qantas in this case has it way too easy. Could this be worth a challenge with the ombudsman?

Surely you don't have to spoon-feed people that much?? The date of last activity appears on the statement. You add 18 months to that. Simples (as a certain TV ad would say).