Bali and the death penalty

[Hvr]

Even with the typo it is "things and singlets". As I don't ever wear singlets on aircraft fellow pax are protected.

I always wear a singlet on the place, it is under my shirt but still there.


(The medhead p*ss take day will end in 12 hours.)

 

[Deleted member]

I guess my issue is that you can point at Bali with this question, but plenty of other countries have similar standards of prison accommodation and the death penalty. I would find basing my travel on such things too restrictive.

Unless for some reason you carve Indonesia out for special treatment, and still go to other countries that have the death penalty. But that would be hypocritical.

So, I go to Indonesia. I go with an awareness of local rules and customs. I don't get involved in local political issues, their legal system etc. Much the same as any other country I go to.

Once again. I am ONLY talking about Bali.

 

[oz_mark]

Once again. I am ONLY talking about Bali.

But if you are taking a moral stand, you must include every country that violates your moral position. If not, you have some other reason for not going to Bali.

As I have said, I do not limit myself due to taking that moral ground, as it would be more limitting than just ruling Bali out. If you were to only apply such a moral stance toward Bali and not somewhere else, one would have to question whether it was actually a moral stance at all.

 

[medhead]

I always wear a singlet on the place, it is under my shirt but still there.


(The medhead p*ss take day will end in 12 hours.)

Ah there you go, I don't do that old school singlet under shirt thing*


* except during winter, but even then not with thongs. (Damn typos)

 

[drron]

Japan? South America?

Japan still has the death penalty on the books.Brazil and Chile have it on the books though only for serious crimes against the state.So really only Argentina.But where do you go from there.Most of the smaller south American countries have the death penalty as well as most of the Carribean including Cuba.

 

[casanovawa]

I was in Bali last November and seriously stuggled to locate bogans. I didn't see anyone drinking VB. Euro's & Yanks outnumbered the Oi Oi Oi's. There were Bintang singlets for sale yes, but I saw more of these in shops in Noosa over Christmas. I was in fact completely surprised that bogan-Aussies were not everywhere, let along seemingly no where. So mark November down as possibly a good time to go to Bali, because it was very quiet. I've done quite a bit of SE Asia and I'd rate Bali as right up there in terms of beauty.

Ausbt

Save your breath, there tend to be a few sanctimonious w******s who think because they frequent the inside of the Flounge from time to time that they are better than a whole bunch of the general populace (of course its ok coz they swallow copious amounts of Krug or some high class champagne of choice), which is ok, i'm sure most half decent aussies are hardly troubled by their absence either... Of course try to stereotype people with hi-viz or fanboi comments and they all come out of the wood work on this page with manufactured outrage...

I've been to Bali on multiple times with friends and family, i don't get mixed up in drugs up there or down here, i have no sympathy for people in the trade who come out with the sob stories when caught red handed and if a few of them actually were executed instead of getting special treatment and commuted sentences and all then maybe the behaviour would change permanently... There have probably been a few, but i can't recall hearing half as many aussies getting caught smuggling drugs to Malaysia after Barlow and Chambers or whatever there names were were executed...

So no, to cut it short its a complete non factor on me choosing Bali as a holiday destination...

 

[sergeyvzn]

Ausbt

Save your breath, there tend to be a few sanctimonious w******s who think because they frequent the inside of the Flounge from time to time that they are better than a whole bunch of the general populace (of course its ok coz they swallow copious amounts of Krug or some high class champagne of choice), which is ok, i'm sure most half decent aussies are hardly troubled by their absence either... Of course try to stereotype people with hi-viz or fanboi comments and they all come out of the wood work on this page with manufactured outrage...

I've been to Bali on multiple times with friends and family, i don't get mixed up in drugs up there or down here, i have no sympathy for people in the trade who come out with the sob stories when caught red handed and if a few of them actually were executed instead of getting special treatment and commuted sentences and all then maybe the behaviour would change permanently... There have probably been a few, but i can't recall hearing half as many aussies getting caught smuggling drugs to Malaysia after Barlow and Chambers or whatever there names were were executed...

So no, to cut it short its a complete non factor on me choosing Bali as a holiday destination...

+1. Exactly my thoughts

 

[medhead]

Japan still has the death penalty on the books.Brazil and Chile have it on the books though only for serious crimes against the state.So really only Argentina.But where do you go from there.Most of the smaller south American countries have the death penalty as well as most of the Carribean including Cuba.

UK or Spain would be likely places, I guess without checking routes or schedules. A boat to the Falklands and fly from there?

 

[medhead]

Ausbt

Save your breath, there tend to be a few sanctimonious w******s

There also tend to be a few who find themselves on the wrong side of a sarchasm and tend to read more into things than is written.

 

[Pushka]

I think the worst part of going to Bali is the VA flight there and back. That is where you get stuck with the bogans; the women who change into their Bali 2 dollar dress on the way up; the singletted guy who starts on the xx_x at 10 am in the morning; and the sporting groups who are so freak in noisy. But once out of immigration, its into your lovely limo car and leave them behind, until its time to leave. The flights are definitely the worst part.

 

[drron]

UK or Spain would be likely places, I guess without checking routes or schedules. A boat to the Falklands and fly from there?

Actually you cant get a boat to the Falklands from argentina as they introduced a law recently that any ship calling in at the falklands is prohibited from all argentinian ports.
As to Spain I will come to an understanding with you-you can stick to Aerolineas argentina + Iberia and I will stick with QF,AA and asian airlines.

 

[medhead]

Actually you cant get a boat to the Falklands from argentina as they introduced a law recently that any ship calling in at the falklands is prohibited from all argentinian ports.

Luxury yacht is more appropriate. BTW I was going to say boat to the Mariniaes, but as you can see, I can't spell that well.

As to Spain I will come to an understanding with you-you can stick to Aerolineas argentina + Iberia and I will stick with QF,AA and asian airlines.

No, we can't reach such an understanding, really. I'm not boycotting any countries, just exploring the possibilities wrt long haul from Australia.

Still surely Argentina is pretty long haul

 

[777]

It is possible to oppose the death penalty for drug offences while not opposing it for murder for example.

Personally, i'm against the death penalty until we get an infallible legal system but i'm not going to go so far as to boycott places that have it. I will happily travel to the US, SE Asia and other countries that do have a death penalty while being mindful of local customs.

Oh, and FWIW: The Phillipines, Canada, South Africa, Argentina are all destinations you can fly to direct (and on from) that don't have the death penalty.

 

[Blinky]

I'm pretty sure there would be universal outrage if Indonesians started to criticise Australia's lack of, for example, laws against blasphemy. As others have said, their country, their laws.

 

[Pushka]

I'm pretty sure there would be universal outrage if Indonesians started to criticise Australia's lack of, for example, laws against blasphemy. As others have said, their country, their laws.

Yes. Good point. Our use of alcohol would make many Muslim countries shudder.

 

[maomaocat]

I'm pretty sure there would be universal outrage if Indonesians started to criticise Australia's lack of, for example, laws against blasphemy. As others have said, their country, their laws.

A thing's existence may not justify the thing!

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pretty sure there would be universal outrage if Indonesians started to criticise Australia's lack of, for example, laws against blasphemy. As others have said, their country, their laws.

Yep lets face it, tolerance of a differing religious view is a basic tenet of Islam......

 

[Deleted member]

Any way , as far as I can see none has addressed the actual question. but rtaher rawn comparisons, with other countries etc. so here is the question again


Anyway I would be interested to know how those who do travel to Bali ( and plent of Aussies do so) Reconcile the treatment of those in prison there with their own expectations of decency and human rights. And stil feel it's a good idea to go.

answers that do not include refrences to other countries , religions or laws are not relevent

 

[Cynicor]

In answer to your question, I don't reconcile it. I have no issues above and beyond any other countries and their treatment of people. I don't feel Bali/Indonesia is especially bad and the death penalty applies in other countries to which I am happy to travel also.

 

[maomaocat]

Anyway I would be interested to know how those who do travel to Bali ( and plent of Aussies do so) Reconcile the treatment of those in prison there with their own expectations of decency and human rights. And stil feel it's a good idea to go.

Splitting the question up a bit:

- are you opposed to aliens in Indonesia being subject to Indonesian laws?
- the death penalty in Indonesia in particular?
- are you opposed to aliens in any country being subject to that country's laws?
- the death penalty in general?
- do you think that aliens are being entrapped due to differences in access to things that will cause those persons to break the law?
- who do you think has the responsibility for maintaining or preventing access to those things? or temptation?
- do you think that aliens should be held to a different moral standard compared to locals?

personally, the only agreement that my partner and I have at the moment vis a vis travel is that we won't go to the US again until they tighten up their gun control policy. There are still many nice places and people in the US, though.