Some good points about Qantas

[Mal Ware]

Qantas stock, and why this reporter must buy some | Plane Talking

"Qantas should have been asked on what basis it thinks that connecting to the Jetstar franchise at Singapore Airport, after as much as 4-6 hours between flights, to complete a journey to points in China, India, Malaysia, Thailand or wherever, after flying full service Qantas from Australia, is actually going to cut it with business travellers?"

"Would it not have been a good idea for someone to ask management what happens if Qantas stands still, or imitates standing still, for the three years CEO Alan Joyce says it will take to restore Qantas international to profitability, while the rest of the market keeps growing at a notional 6% per annum, making it almost 20% larger by then than it is now?"

"What was Alan Joyce smoking when he said the things he was telling the Australian market about Red Q little more than a year ago, why hasn’t he been held to account for this, and why, in a few words, isn’t it much more competitive for an Australian business traveller going to much of Asia, or an Asian business traveller going to much of Australia, to do so flying the full service all-the-way offerings of Singapore Airlines, SilkAir and their Australian partner, Virgin Australia?"

"No-one asked the really embarrassing question as to what happened to the wicked, evil, union death threats claim that Qantas trotted out just over a year ago, which caused the NSW government to deploy state police resources into a special investigation which without explanation, ended its inquiries? Where is the evidence? Why didn’t it support criminal charges? Did Qantas in fact just make it all up, goodness me, surely not, but if it did, has it been called to account for a PR stunt that involved false or misleading statements?"

 

[moa999]

Some great quotes from Ben Sandilands. Much like his "brother" Kyle he loves the headlines, and in particular seems to have a very sharp axe to grind against Qantas for some reason. Whilst I appreciate what he does on the safety front some of his points on Qantas are truly bizarre. A few of my comments on those statements

"Qantas should have been asked on what basis it thinks that connecting to the Jetstar franchise at Singapore Airport, after as much as 4-6 hours between flights, to complete a journey to points in China, India, Malaysia, Thailand or wherever, after flying full service Qantas from Australia, is actually going to cut it with business travellers?"

So what else can Qantas do here? Save for flying directly to all of these points for which the loads/yields don't seem to be there, could it run tag flights eg SYD-SIN-India, MEL-SIN-Malaysia... Maybe, but how many routes have a 747/330 on a 2hr leg. You can't fly a 737/320 to there so why not base it in SIN... Oh wait that was RedQ which was also panned by Ben, and is also JetstarAsia. SQ and MH have massive advantage by having their hubs in SEAsia. Whilst not an ideal solution for QF, putting passengers on 3K for a short flight is better than none.

"Would it not have been a good idea for someone to ask management what happens if Qantas stands still, or imitates standing still, for the three years CEO Alan Joyce says it will take to restore Qantas international to profitability, while the rest of the market keeps growing at a notional 6% per annum, making it almost 20% larger by then than it is now?"

Its always a good idea to grow the business with total disregard to profitability - maybe OK if you are backed by a rich royal family, but when you answer to the banks and shareholders not so good.

"What was Alan Joyce smoking when he said the things he was telling the Australian market about Red Q little more than a year ago, why hasn’t he been held to account for this, and why, in a few words, isn’t it much more competitive for an Australian business traveller going to much of Asia, or an Asian business traveller going to much of Australia, to do so flying the full service all-the-way offerings of Singapore Airlines, SilkAir and their Australian partner, Virgin Australia?"

So you point out that QF can't match the all the way full service offerings of SQ/DJ but then also pan RedQ.... From a third party perspective it is clear that Qantas had discussions with Singapore, Cathay, Malaysian to try and find an Asian partner but couldn't strike an acceptable deal. RedQ was an alternate solution to this and having already setup JetstarAsia I suspect that QF didn't see too many roadblocks. Obviously however the political environment in Singapore had changed, or SQ was scared, and it seemingly got knocked on the head... I can't see how you can hold AJ to account for trying to improve QF's full service offering - sure it was announced to early, and probably too boldly for Asian sensitivities but it was QF willing to expand and invest into mainline.

"No-one asked the really embarrassing question as to what happened to the wicked, evil, union death threats claim that Qantas trotted out just over a year ago, which caused the NSW government to deploy state police resources into a special investigation which without explanation, ended its inquiries? Where is the evidence? Why didn’t it support criminal charges? Did Qantas in fact just make it all up, goodness me, surely not, but if it did, has it been called to account for a PR stunt that involved false or misleading statements?"

Lets see Joe Public makes complaint. Police investigate. Police find some/ no evidence, decide not enough to charge someone, not enough to get a conviction. Case dropped. Do the Police ever release information about investigations. Ever... From memory this was a year ago and I dont really remember Qantas making PR mileage out of it.

 

[mannej]

Be careful, you may be accused of being a Qantas spokesperson ;-)

 

[Mal Ware]

Some great quotes from Ben Sandilands. Much like his "brother" Kyle he loves the headlines, and in particular seems to have a very sharp axe to grind against Qantas for some reason. Whilst I appreciate what he does on the safety front some of his points on Qantas are truly bizarre. A few of my comments on those statements


So what else can Qantas do here? Save for flying directly to all of these points for which the loads/yields don't seem to be there, could it run tag flights eg SYD-SIN-India, MEL-SIN-Malaysia... Maybe, but how many routes have a 747/330 on a 2hr leg. You can't fly a 737/320 to there so why not base it in SIN... Oh wait that was RedQ which was also panned by Ben, and is also JetstarAsia. SQ and MH have massive advantage by having their hubs in SEAsia. Whilst not an ideal solution for QF, putting passengers on 3K for a short flight is better than none..

I tend to agree with you here, once in Asia you can kind of expect to be moved around by an Asian based carrier, I have not problem with that. Maybe he is referring more to the booking from Australia where Jetstar rears its budget head on the Qantas site sometimes, not sure.

Its always a good idea to grow the business with total disregard to profitability - maybe OK if you are backed by a rich royal family, but when you answer to the banks and shareholders not so good.

Something Joyce should take on board, he has destroyed the share price since he took over.

So you point out that QF can't match the all the way full service offerings of SQ/DJ but then also pan RedQ.... From a third party perspective it is clear that Qantas had discussions with Singapore, Cathay, Malaysian to try and find an Asian partner but couldn't strike an acceptable deal. RedQ was an alternate solution to this and having already setup JetstarAsia I suspect that QF didn't see too many roadblocks. Obviously however the political environment in Singapore had changed, or SQ was scared, and it seemingly got knocked on the head... I can't see how you can hold AJ to account for trying to improve QF's full service offering - sure it was announced to early, and probably too boldly for Asian sensitivities but it was QF willing to expand and invest into mainline.

I didn't write the article, merely quoated it.

Lets see Joe Public makes complaint. Police investigate. Police find some/ no evidence, decide not enough to charge someone, not enough to get a conviction. Case dropped. Do the Police ever release information about investigations. Ever... From memory this was a year ago and I dont really remember Qantas making PR mileage out of it.

I don't think you can compare the CEO of Qantas in the middle of a PR disaster to "Joe Public". That is stretching it a little...

I do agree with the writer on this and that it was purely fictional to gain some sympathy for Joyce while he single handedly destroyed the travel plans of 70 thousand people.

 

[mannej]

You mention the action Joyce took and how it destroyed the travel plans of many. On the flip side how many people's plans were affected by the union actions prior to that?

 

[nlagalle]

Something Joyce should take on board, he has destroyed the share price since he took over.

Yes the share price is down, but it had already halved before AJ became CEO, so it was already on the downward slide.

I do agree with the writer on this and that it was purely fictional to gain some sympathy for Joyce while he single handedly destroyed the travel plans of 70 thousand people.

As someone who was directly affected by the grounding (was due to fly out of LHR that saturday night), I applaud his actions. I was more frustrated with the union action in the months leading up which was the phantom strikes bringing cancellations/shifting of flights and then nothing happened. To me that was more annoying.

I also doubt they made up the death threats. That in itself is an offence, and you only need one loony to make a threat, real or not.

 

[amaroo]

Don't buy shares in a business that doesn't pay a dividend.......

FWIW, Harry's Cafe De Wheels has delivered a dividend every qtr for past 12+ years.......airlines are for flying - not investing.

 

[777]

airlines are for flying - not investing.

I dont know. I recently banked a 50% return on the sale of the Virgin Australia shares i picked up shortly after Borghetti came on board.

 

[Mal Ware]

I dont know. I recently banked a 50% return on the sale of the Virgin Australia shares i picked up shortly after Borghetti came on board.

Thats not a bad return, well done.

 

[JohnPhelan]

it was purely fictional to gain some sympathy for Joyce while he single handedly destroyed the travel plans of 70 thousand people.

It's an offence to make a false complaint to police. Only an irresponsible moron would do that. There is no way that the CEO of a major company would do it. And don't think for a moment that the police would not have charged him with making a false complaint, if they became aware that was the case - especially in such a high profile matter.

The fact that you believe that the threats were "purely fictional" says much more about you than it does about Alan Joyce.

Please fly on another airline and stop fabricating defamatory allegations about things of which you have no knowledge.

 

[eastwest101]

I dont know. I recently banked a 50% return on the sale of the Virgin Australia shares i picked up shortly after Borghetti came on board.

And the people whom bravely brought into QF when they went below $1 are now sitting on a 30% return as well - so there are gains to be made as you rightly point out.

 

[simongr]

I do agree with the writer on this and that it was purely fictional to gain some sympathy for Joyce while he single handedly destroyed the travel plans of 70 thousand people.

Could provide some evidence that it was fictional please?

 

[Mal Ware]

It's an offence to make a false complaint to police. .

As the article states....

Only an irresponsible moron would do that. There is no way that the CEO of a major company would do it. And don't think for a moment that the police would not have charged him with making a false complaint, if they became aware that was the case - especially in such a high profile matter.

With a media team working for him all he needs is one person on thousands of forum posts across Australia to hypothetically threaten him and bang, there is your "threat".

That is why it was probably fictitious, had it been a real threat the person involved would have been dealt with by police.

Surely you are not so naive as to put such a complaint beyond a corporation pining for sympathy and support.

The fact that you believe that the threats were "purely fictional" says much more about you than it does about Alan Joyce.

No it shows how naive you are as I stated earlier. I very much doubt that Joyce picked up the phone and made a complaint to Police, his cronies would have done so.

Please fly on another airline and stop fabricating defamatory allegations about things of which you have no knowledge.

You disagree with my opinion so therefore I should fly on another airline? LOL What a pathetic request.

BTW if I were making "defamatory allegations" how could I also be "fabricating" them? lol

I agree with the writer of the article that the threats were ficticiuos and unless you can prove otherwise I will continue to believe that, I am sure the argument goes vice versa....

 

[Mal Ware]

Could provide some evidence that it was fictional please?

I would ask you to prove the threats were real, offenders name/court dates/results. Off you go....

 

[mannej]

I would ask you to prove the threats were real, offenders name/court dates/results. Off you go....

Those details you are asking for does not prove that the threats were real or fictitious...

 

[simongr]

I would ask you to prove the threats were real, offenders name/court dates/results. Off you go....

You state that it was fictional - I didnt opine either way.

 

[amaroo]

I dont know. I recently banked a 50% return on the sale of the Virgin Australia shares i picked up shortly after Borghetti came on board.

Some people like dividends - some like to gamble......

 

[Mal Ware]

You state that it was fictional - I didnt opine either way.

You expect me to provide evidence, yet when you are asked to provide evidence to the contrary you suddenly don't have an opinion? LOL

 

[mannej]

You expect me to provide evidence, yet when you are asked to provide evidence to the contrary you suddenly don't have an opinion? LOL

He is asking you to provide substance to your statement about the threats being fictional. He never provided an opinion, just asked you to back yours up with some evidence.

That being the case why does he have to provide evidence?

 

[simongr]

He is asking you to provide substance to your statement about the threats being fictional. He never provided an opinion, just asked you to back yours up with some evidence.

That being the case why does he have to provide evidence?

Exactly - I do not know either way whether the threats were faked. Equally I have not stated whether they were faked or not. You have explicitly stated that:

"I do agree with the writer on this and that it was purely fictional to gain some sympathy for Joyce while he single handedly destroyed the travel plans of 70 thousand people. "