Budget Cuts for Pub.Service travel: Economy for Domestic & Reduced International

[cove]

Medhead get ready to demonstrate. Changes to super are inevitable now that they are trying to "break even" when the economy is running softly.
No one knows how they can pay their budget deficits back without your help under the guise of "savings".

 

[medhead]

Medhead get ready to demonstrate. Changes to super are inevitable now that they are trying to "break even" when the economy is running softly.
No one knows how they can pay their budget deficits back without your help under the guise of "savings".

I'll be demonstrating if they try extract more tax from money in super that has already been taxed. Actually, I do have some super money that is taxed when it leaves the fund not at input. Maybe I better transfer that elsewhere while it's still 15%.


Sent from the Throne

 

[anchew]

I see in the table posted by anchew that there is very little difference in price for J flights when comparing WOAG to public.

True, but that only applies to dom J and only important people get to fly dom J. As for int J...

$167 for a B fare would be my dream

If you think that the dom B class fares are good, you'll really be impressed with the discount provided for int J fares from a particular airline. It's fair to say that the discount we get is quite significant and now most of our int travel is with this airline. Don't think it's appropriate to provide any more details in such a public forum, but if you're going to the AFF OOL or Christmas events, feel free to hit me up.

Too bad we can't access these fares for personal travel though.

 

[fersea]

Re: Cut Plans for PS travel: Business Class [domestic] & International

It was cheapest and also the flight times where good and he was most upset that he got no SC's or FF points.

So I presume he is an AFF member?

 

[fersea]

True, but that only applies to dom J and only important people get to fly dom J. As for int J...



If you think that the dom B class fares are good, you'll really be impressed with the discount provided for int J fares from a particular airline. It's fair to say that the discount we get is quite significant and now most of our int travel is with this airline. Don't think it's appropriate to provide any more details in such a public forum, but if you're going to the AFF OOL or Christmas events, feel free to hit me up.

Too bad we can't access these fares for personal travel though.

Anchew just be a bit careful quoting these prices, you do realize it is commercial in confidence information. Even Department of Finance don't provide agencies with the full details of pricing.

Agree with the point however that QF are generally BFOD recently.

 

[maomaocat]

Wow... I can't believe so much controversy has been generated over nothing. Realistically, nothing is going to change. Most (Commonwealth) public servants travel Y domestically, the SES flying J have it written into their contracts and I can't see MPs and Senators flying Y. So there will be no change at all.

it'll change when APS EL1 and above get TOIL! <= APS6 get paid for a certain number of hours, >= EL1 get paid to get the job done.

A few weeks ago I was amused to read that coach (murrays greyhound etc ) fares are never the overall cheapest option. It was calculated on the basis of a person's salary and the duration of the travel, in conjunction with any associated recovery time. If you're paying someone so much per day or per hour and they're traveling for work, you want to extract as much utilisation as possible from them. cf earlier comments in this thread about the difference in working in J and Y. If you were paying for a scum contractor to travel you'd expect the same, right?

(I miss being scum. as soon as you leave the office you can turn your brain off! ;-) )

tbh I wish some pollies and staff didn't work on flights. DSD approved containers? I think not!

 

[eastwest101]

... you do realize it is commercial in confidence information. Even Department of Finance don't provide agencies with the full details of pricing.

Agree that the fare information is commercial in confidence as far as QF and/or VA is concerned. However this is the public service we are talking about here so there is a public interest test and a different level of accountability because its funded by taxpayers.

If the systems and processes are clear/open and accountable then I would think that the public is satisfied that the government is actually getting pretty good value for its travel spend - which in the majority of cases cited here - would seem to be the case. Personally I wouldn't want highly paid and qualified people spending hours on busses when they could be flying to their work and performing that work more efficiently.

 

[TonyHancock]

Personally I wouldn't want highly paid and qualified people spending hours on busses when they could be flying to their work and performing that work more efficiently.

I have met a few "highly paid and qualified" people in the private and public sector and my preference would be to keep many of them as far away from work that is important as possible. Putting them on busses for hours is only one way that could be effective for the company/government body they work for!!

(I don't disagree with your point though, I'd probably substitute "skilled and capable" for "highly paid and qualified".)

 

[RWJ777]

Wow... I can't believe so much controversy has been generated over nothing. Realistically, nothing is going to change. Most (Commonwealth) public servants travel Y domestically, the SES flying J have it written into their contracts and I can't see MPs and Senators flying Y. So there will be no change at all.

J for SES is not in contracts. It is Chief Exec Instructions, which can be varied at will. Most agencies now require their SES to fly east coast in Y.

 

[Platinum A332]

Re: Cut Plans for PS travel: Business Class [domestic] & International

The reality is there is a lot of waste in the public service. I know many people in the public service who work around 10-4 if not less everyday, and I also struggle to see what contribution they are actually making when he or she describes what she's doing "I write reports, for person X, who works under Person Y, who is in Department Z, and sometimes they might use some aspects of the research I do in public policy".

Look at the debate surrounding a second Sydney airport, or transport infrastructure, or productivity growth policies. Australia's productivity growth is down there with countries like Botswana! These are problems caused by successive, ineffective governments backed up by a bloated public service trying to pander the electorate.

Honestly, most public servants and politicians do not even deserve to fly Tiger.

 

[harvyk]

Re: Cut Plans for PS travel: Business Class [domestic] & International

. Australia's productivity growth is down there with countries like Botswana!

You want to back that up with actual figures and proof?

These are problems caused by successive, ineffective governments backed up by a bloated public service trying to pander the electorate.


Honestly, most public servants and politicians do not even deserve to fly Tiger.

Whilest I'm not going to pretend we have the best gov't in the world, we are far from the worst. I'll start considering that we have major problems when my home is at risk of been invaded by the milatary if I dare say a bad word about the El Presidente, and that we have poverty on every street in Australia with exception to adelaide ave (where the lodge is located)

Untile then, unless they really stuff things up, I'm not too concerned with who is in power, and it's kinda a mute point when talking about the PS anyway.

 

[Platinum A332]

Re: Cut Plans for PS travel: Business Class [domestic] & International

You want to back that up with actual figures and proof?

Here is the most detailed analysis in The Australian: Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

AUSTRALIA has been ranked second worst of 51 countries for productivity growth, according to a global survey that places the nation's economic performance behind 33 countries, including New Zealand and Colombia.

Also - Australia ahead of Botswana only in productivity growth - RN Drive - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

A global survey has ranked Australia second last, 50th out of 51 countries surveyed, in productivity growth, beating only Botswana.
The survey was co-commissioned by the Australian Human Resources Institute.

More commentary here on Business Spectator - Australia ranks poorly in productivity in global study | News | Business Spectator

And for the record, I do agree with you 100%. Australia is better than most economies. And without a doubt out problems compared to Syria (as a worst case example) are non-existent.

 

[RWJ777]

Re: Cut Plans for PS travel: Business Class [domestic] & International

The reality is there is a lot of waste in the public service. I know many people in the public service who work around 10-4 if not less everyday, and I also struggle to see what contribution they are actually making when he or she describes what she's doing "I write reports, for person X, who works under Person Y, who is in Department Z, and sometimes they might use some aspects of the research I do in public policy".

Look at the debate surrounding a second Sydney airport, or transport infrastructure, or productivity growth policies. Australia's productivity growth is down there with countries like Botswana! These are problems caused by successive, ineffective governments backed up by a bloated public service trying to pander the electorate.

Honestly, most public servants and politicians do not even deserve to fly Tiger.

What a silly and, frankly, ignorant post. Australia's economy, borne of macro and micro economic reform of two decades' genesis, has produced extraordinary household earnings.

 

[drron]

Re: Cut Plans for PS travel: Business Class [domestic] & International

What a silly and, frankly, ignorant post. Australia's economy, borne of macro and micro economic reform of two decades' genesis, has produced extraordinary household earnings.

Not so silly and ignorant.Since 2007/08 the median household disposable income has been dropping.The figures for average household disposable income has increased slightly since then but of course the method of calculating the figure was changed after 2007/08.if the same method had been used the average would also have fallen.
The median is a much more relevant figure as it means 50% of households are lower than this figure.The average figure is distorted by high income earners.
Here is a reference to average figures-
The average household is getting poorer by Leith van Onselen

And explaining the difference in figures between average and median-
What is the typical Australian’s income? « We are all dead.

As to waste in the public service it really depends where you look.But here is one area-
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

It is happening here in Tasmania too.Last week i had many conversations with an Indigenous Tasmanian.Born on Flinders island,first years spent on Cape Barren island but because he was from an Island he is not recognised as indigenous by the Hobart based TAC.He sees very little of the money spent on indigenous services.

Then there is health.There has been an incredible growth in the Health administration industry with very little evidence of outcomes.In the Morris Inquiry into Bundaberg hospital the Director General of Qld Health said that 60% of its salaries were on non clinical staff-and by clinical that is not only medical and nursing but all Allied Health as well.
Of course we are now going way OT.I apologise.

 

[RWJ777]

Re: Cut Plans for PS travel: Business Class [domestic] & International

The point I was making was that over two decades, household earnings -- largely as a result of good macro and micro economic policy as a function of good quality government (on both sides) -- has continually increased, relative to other countries. In recent times, the terms of trade and commodities market have underpinned that but the reforms of the 80s and 90s formed the basis for some outstanding economic development. Think floating exchange rate, credit liberalisation, accords, superannuation, GST and waterfront. It was a veritable bonanza of reform in those two decades.

You're right though that productivity has declined in recent times, for a range of reasons -- and we need to get it to climb again, quick smart.

My central point is that we, as a country, have done very well over a generation. It's glib and too easy to criticise governments and those who work in them because the evidence shows plainly that we have done well. However, no room for complacency.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I wont be participating in this thread. There are no winners and we all have very set opinions that wont change.


Suffice to say we will have an election in under 12 months, have your say there.

I have lived in CBR for a long time and play at senior levels in business these days. So i would know how multi - dimentional these arguements can be.

 

[harvyk]

Re: Cut Plans for PS travel: Business Class [domestic] & International

Here is the most detailed analysis in The Australian: Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
Also - Australia ahead of Botswana only in productivity growth - RN Drive - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
More commentary here on Business Spectator - Australia ranks poorly in productivity in global study | News | Business Spectator
And for the record, I do agree with you 100%. Australia is better than most economies. And without a doubt out problems compared to Syria (as a worst case example) are non-existent.

First of all, thanks for actually citing sources, I've lost count of the number of people who make statements, and then when questioned about those statements either ignore the question, or simply reply back with "but every intelligent person knows that" shut down.

With the figures given in the Australian, I notice that Botswana is ranked at number 2 for economic performance. I also noticed that total factor productivity growth (I'll just call it TFPG) Australia sits at 10.3. Botswana sits just behind us at 0. The 49th place getter Japan sits at 17.9, this is out of 100.

I like Swan question the validity of the data, considering that Italy ranks in at number 2 for TFPG. From what I have been hearing Italy's economy is not in an overly good place overall.

In any case, this is getting way OT... Of course what has been mentioned is that there is an election coming up. For those who really do feel the country has gone off the rails there is nothing stopping anyone from running for parliament themselves perhaps as an independent or perhaps by joining their favourite political party. I myself have friends who have joined various political parties because they where not happy with things, I've also had two family members run for a seat in elections, so it's not impossible to do. I'm also pretty sure if you went in with a policy of removing all non-essential travel from the PS, you'd probably end up with QF suggesting what should count as essential travel and giving you a CL card at the same time.

 

[drron]

Re: Cut Plans for PS travel: Business Class [domestic] & International

Sorry Harvyk but although it is easy to run for parliament or join a political party it is not easy to run for parliament as a representative of a political party in a safe seat for them.
I did run in a safe seat but for the opposing party.