Building a stronger Qantas

[JohnPhelan]

Right, so if I'm routed through BKK or HKG I can't upgrade the flight from there to LHR, and I can't book the flight as an ASA. That's an "enhancement" in the true QF sense of the word.

If you go back through the announcement and Red Roo's posts, I believe you can book the BKK-LHR or HKG-LHR flights on BA as ASAs.

(I can't be bothered going back and finding the references, but they are there).

 

[simonpenny408]

Why on earth would I go QF to HKG and then change onto CX (BA is never a preferred option ranking slightly above Garuda). I'd just go CX all the way. Only thing that might be a carrot would be QF F lounge in HK Iif I was interlining

 

[Leumas]

I got that, but these new jobs will clearly be based offshore serving offshore destinations, so weather they are remunerated the same as Australian based crew is irrelevant. These airlines should also not be staffed by Australians if they are based offshore and it makes no sense for Qantas to run a NZ or Japanese domestic airline using Australian staff paid Australian wages. Name one other business where employee's based in different countries are paid the same and work under the same conditions.

Where it does become relevant is if these crews then start flying into Australia, and displacing Australian's in the process, however looking at the announcement and the aircraft this new airline will fly this doesn't not appear to on the cards at present.

Doesn't stop the union asking for equal conditions regardless of where the pilots are based...

 

[ozscot]

Red Roo confirmed about half way through this thread that there is no change to status levels, earning rates or benefits for WP.

So .. you're safe.

Thank you guys I missed that earlier in the thread. That's my selfish interests covered then as I spend most time on AA and BA sectors, mind you on a QF issued DONE4 ;-)

 

[aussiejohn]

You have made many vaild points but I think that as a "bronze" member you are only a "frequent" flyer by name. This is even more true when you concede that the majority of points are earnt at the local Woolies. From an airlines point of view, a FF program exists to reward FF's but unfortunately, bronze members arent frequent at all, so it seems a little rich to expect the benefits without the responsibility.

but I do understand and appreciate your frustration. just my 2p worth.

I take your point, these days I am a FF in name only as I can no longer afford to travel much. I am an original QFF, having joined up when it started as I was travelling more in those days. I did achieve gold status once but could not sustain it. Having said that, I have achieved several flights and upgrades to F using my points over the last umpteen years. Those were the days when you could use your points on Qantas! Now they are only interested in making money from the scheme, not actually wanting people to use those points on QF aircraft.

And yes, now most of my points come from not setting foot on a QF aircraft! I currently have almost enough points for 2 return economy trips to London, one on QF and one on SIA. As you can see from my profile, I am also in AA and Delta, however those memberships date from over 20 years ago when I travelled more frequently. Those 2 memberships are about to lapse now as they have only a few points left. I used the last of my AA points for the return leg LHR-Mel on the A380 in May.

So I plead guilty to your charges, but none of this changes my view. I would still like to fly Qantas, to earn and use points where applicable etc etc. But sadly, as I said, those days have gone. It was good while it lasted and I have happy memories of some excellent flights, including one where I was lucky enough to be invited into the coughpit for the landing into LHR. That was a fantastic experience and a memory I will treasure for a long time.

My humble apologies for going slightly off topic, but as you can see Qantas has been a big part of my life, maybe not as much as many members here, but a part none-the-less.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Why on earth would I go QF to HKG and then change onto CX (BA is never a preferred option ranking slightly above Garuda). I'd just go CX all the way. Only thing that might be a carrot would be QF F lounge in HK Iif I was interlining

It wouldn't bother me.
SYD-HKG/BKK on QF
Land
Go to lounge, shower + drink/email
Go to gate number 'x'
Board plane
Continue to destination on CX.
What/where is the problem?
Only issue, QC members wouldn't be able to use the QC in HKG/BKK because their next onward flight would be on CX, not QF/BA/AA, unless QF amend this or lounge access is allowed after a QF flight?

 

[awilcockson]

If you go back through the announcement and Red Roo's posts, I believe you can book the BKK-LHR or HKG-LHR flights on BA as ASAs.

(I can't be bothered going back and finding the references, but they are there).

I'll wait to see the updates on this page which currently states that ASA seats can only be booked on QF/JQ flights with QF/JQ flight numbers.

Frequent Flyer - Using Points - Qantas & Jetstar Any Seat Awards

 

[TiredOldFlyer]

The Qantas Frequent Flyer program is the world’s best and most profitable loyalty
program, with high potential.

When I read this quote from Alan Joyce today I wonder if Qantas are serious about running an airline or do they prefer to make money
from their hard to use points loyalty programme.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Sad day for Qantas...all about profit and nothing more. I understand a business needs profit, but a truly great business can be profitable AND serve the needs of both its customers and employees.

Just as Jet Connect serve all NZ flights, it seems the majority of international flights will be served by another offshore entity that neatly gets around Australian wages, safety, working conditions, etc.

It was very sad hearing Alan Joyce trying to sound so empathetic when saying all redundant QF pilots will be offered employment with JQ with JQ 'terms and conditions'.

What is the national animal of Singapore... it needs to replace the red roo.

 

[rechoboam]

Leigh Sales interview on 730 right now is pretty atrocious.

 

[ajw373]

Sad day for Qantas...all about profit and nothing more. I understand a business needs profit, but a truly great business can be profitable AND serve the needs of both its customers and employees.

Just as Jet Connect serve all NZ flights, it seems the majority of international flights will be served by another offshore entity that neatly gets around Australian wages, safety, working conditions, etc.

It was very sad hearing Alan Joyce trying to sound so empathetic when saying all redundant QF pilots will be offered employment with JQ with JQ 'terms and conditions'.

What is the national animal of Singapore... it needs to replace the red roo.

That's not the case actually. There are no plans to replace Australian crew or aircraft on flights out of Australia. The plan is for the new airline to service destinations outside of Australia from a location outside of Australia, with the flights from Australia being operated by Qantas using Australian based crews paid Australian wages etc.

This does three things. It generates income for the group (and Australian company). It generates traffic and provides more route options from Australia that would not be possible with direct flights out of Australia, meaning you don't have to fly say Thai or Singapore to get to those destinations. 3rdly this growth should then allow the Australian operations to grow generating jobs for Australian's.

 

[rechoboam]

Leigh Sales: "isn't this risky"
Well yes, business is about risk, Joyce isn't running the ABC here.
I think AJ was at least coached well for the interviews. Did she seriously expect QF to announce this secretly to staff before the ASX was informed?

 

[medhead]

No it's not. The new premium airline appears to only be flying from a hub location to Asian destinations as a totally sperate offshore airline. I didn't see anything mentioning that airline flying to Australia. Same too with Jetstar Japan. So if anything it gives Qantas pilots and crew what they wanted, which is jobs for Australian's, and if this plan works then there is no reason why Qantas international cannot grow thus creating more opportunities for them.

What they are not going to get is too many destinations more than 1 hop from Australia, with only Singapore-London being double leggers.

The problem is that the message today and over the last few months is that qantas international must stand or fall on its own. Joyce will not use profits from other parts of the business to support qantas international, that is clear from the withdrawal and diversion of capital from qantas international. (unlike jetstar) Most people on AFF agree that qantas international need fleet renewal, but it is not going to get it. So how does qantas international get the profit required to grow with a rapidly aging fleet and no support to renew it from the Group? I think it is important to realise that qantas domestic and international are more profitable than jetstar. We could throw in QFF as well.

Leigh Sales interview on 730 right now is pretty atrocious.

I agree Joyce was atrocious.

 

[Mollycram]

As an aside: the "As one of our most valued customers" bar is pretty low!

I just got the email from AJ and i'm QF bronze and have caught exactly one Qantas flight in the last year (plus a few J* due to my frequent MEL-NTL trips and a few CX flights credited to QF).

Still it's good to know i'm one of their 8million or so "most valued customers." Would be slightly more honest to address me as "As someone who occasionally uses our airline."

Well at least you got the email! There was no email from AJ waiting for me today... Wonder how they put their distribution list together....

 

[ajw373]

The problem is that the message today and over the last few months is that qantas international must stand or fall on its own. Joyce will not use profits from other parts of the business to support qantas international, that is clear from the withdrawal and diversion of capital from qantas international. (unlike jetstar) Most people on AFF agree that qantas international need fleet renewal, but it is not going to get it. So how does qantas international get the profit required to grow with a rapidly aging fleet and no support to renew it from the Group? I think it is important to realise that qantas domestic and international are more profitable than jetstar. We could throw in QFF as well.



I agree Joyce was atrocious.

Who said Qantas international wasn't getting any new aircraft? If I am not mistaken they have a fleet of not so old A380's and A330's and 6 of the 747's are not what could be called old. Qantas (excluding Jetstar for a second) are meant to be getting 787's, which are for domestic 767 replacement and Qantas growth, which to me points international rather than domestic.

Excluding new aircraft for a second, how does Qantas international return to profit and grow? Simple by having Qantas owned airlines at hub points flying to destinations Qantas couldn't justify flying to from Australia, feeding those passengers destined for Australia onto Qantas aircraft instead of onto the likes of Thai and Singapore.

 

[straitman]

Excluding new aircraft for a second, how does Qantas international return to profit and grow? Simple by having Qantas owned airlines at hub points flying to destinations Qantas couldn't justify flying to from Australia, feeding those passengers destined for Australia onto Qantas aircraft instead of onto the likes of Thai and Singapore.

This is right out of Airline Management 101 believe it or not.

A pity that some of the Qantas management team don't appear to have read the other chapters :!:

 

[ajw373]

It is interesting to see the number of people complaining about not being able to fly via Bangkok or Hong Kong to London on Qantas metal and how this devalues their frequent flyer membership. But I do wonder how many have stopped to think that this new Asia based premium airline will (hopefully) open up a shed more destination options within Asia, that at present would require us to fly to Singapore or Bangkok with Thai or Singapore (and maybe Qantas) and then change to a different airline. With this new airline it will be Qantas group, not Jetstar all the way. Isn't that a major benefit and doesn't Qantas concentrating on flying to destinations closer to home make more sense?

It seems like we are 10 years behind the Europeans who learnt 10 years ago flying double hop routes to a thin destinations 20 hours flight away is not sensible or profitable and linking with alliance partners is the better way to go. In many ways what Qantas is doing with London is the same as BA did. That is fly to a hub and let your partner go the rest of the way, except of course with a token end to end flight.

 

[russ]

Just what the world needs: more airlines, more websites, more booking systems, etc, none of which will talk to each other.

What a pity they didn't try to do something innovative, like creating a virtual airline across the entire oneworld alliance where customers had the ability to access the value add stuff (eg choose seats, access upgrades, etc) across the network rather than the half-hearted attempt we have now.

 

[serfty]

Leigh Sales: "isn't this risky"
Well yes, business is about risk, Joyce isn't running the ABC here.
I think AJ was at least coached well for the interviews. Did she seriously expect QF to announce this secretly to staff before the ASX was informed?

Worse was the preamble where the voice over went something like this:

"82% of International PAX for Australia do not fly Qantas or Jetstar".

To Quote for the AJ speech earlier today:

"Right now 82 out of every 100 people flying out of Australia are choosing to fly with an airline other than Qantas, not including Jetstar."

Now as posted by markis10, the May figures indicate the figure is 73% if you include Jetstar.

 

[awilcockson]

Isn't that a major benifit and doesn't flying to destinations closer to home make more sense?

That might be ok for leisure travelers, but I don't think my clients in Europe and the US would appreciate me asking them to move their operations to Asia to make my travel fit in better with QFs new schedules.