Safety and stupidity. Kudos Qantas, take a good look at yourself others...

[nlagalle]

I agree. That long weekend backlog is just going to be hideous after today's flights are cancelled. Airports wont be nice to hang out in not even at the overcrowded QP.

well the SYD J lounge is fairly quiet.. I'm staying here til i work out what exactly is going on before heading back into town.. my guess is no flights to MEL on QF though..

 

[Nigelinoz]

well the SYD J lounge is fairly quiet.. I'm staying here til i work out what exactly is going on before heading back into town.. my guess is no flights to MEL on QF though..

If worse comes to worse you could always take Countrylink tonight,that'll get you back in MEL by about 7:30 tomorrow.
Cheers
N'oz

 

[jb747]

Actually I'm trying to get home this afternoon....though that probably doesn't look too good. I'll head out to the offices in a while..may as well be a bit closer to the action.

 

[jb747]

Seriously though, Emirates, Singapore, Cathay, they all fly into Melbourne. I know for a fact Emirates and Singapore flew into melbourne at a Lower safe altitude. I dont see the issue if CASA have approved operations, and the airlines continue to comply with CASA orders then there is no problem..
Please dont let these comments deter from the fact that I applaud QF for taking precautions, however, it seems it may be unnessesary as everyone else (You cant include tiger) is adjusting their operations according to the conditions.

Realistically CASA has no expertise on this at all. And, having seen at least one of the airlines you mentioned take off into weather that had me going back to the terminal, I'm not convinced that they are driven by anything other than cost considerations.

Obviously people will go on considering the precautions to be needless, until something goes wrong. Then, of course, it will all be recriminations.

Lowest safe altitude? Where's that? Well, it's not in controlled airspace for a start, and it's down in the areas where the 'see and be seen' crowd exist. That operation alone has its own dangers. The big fellas should not be in that airspace unless an emergency exists, and, there isn't one, is there?

 

[LiamR]

Actually I'm trying to get home this afternoon....though that probably doesn't look too good. I'll head out to the offices in a while..may as well be a bit closer to the action.

QF just tweeted flights out of MEL should resume by 1300. Hope your not on Standby travel, you could be waiting a while!

 

[nlagalle]

I applaude QF on their action, I am one of the many affected people that was stranded here last night. But I'd rather they err on the side of caution.

 

[harvyk]

So what happened in Bangkok in 1999 was really just a tour of the golf course and not penny pinching about use of reverse thrust. (And of course there would be no penny pincing at QF these days).

There where a few things which caused the problem, but the simple explaination is - it was a miscommunication between the captain and the first officer as to if a go around was to be initiated, coupled with engine 1 thrust being left too high when the other 3 engines thrust was brought down when the plane touched down.


There is one thing that you can never fault QF on, and that's their desire to not take un-airworthy planes in the air, and giving the pilot the complete say in wether a flight will happen or not. Whilst it is annoying for the pax (and thus perfect fodder for nonews) when they find out they are stuck at an airport they no longer want to be in, IMHO the greatest aviation expression ever applies - "It's better to be on the ground wishing you where in the air, than be in the air wishing you where on the ground."

 

[dk4]

I applaud Virgin Australia (& Air New Zealand) for keeping their planes flying, for as long as it was safe to do so!

IMO I think that this will be a P.R. disaster for Qantas Group, the "safety conservatives" in Coward St, have made a big blunder.

In the end, Virgin Australia can get you there, when Qantas won't... this will change the face of future business bookings, well done VAA!

Let's remember that the safest place for any aircraft is on the ground - every single departure (every day, on every flight) beyond that point, is risk management... Of course we should expect the QF stooges to spin the overly conservative company line, bet the bean counters appreciate that it save them a bit of jet fuel as well.

 

[oz_mark]

There where a few things which caused the problem, but the simple explaination is - it was a miscommunication between the captain and the first officer as to if a go around was to be initiated, coupled with engine 1 thrust being left too high when the other 3 engines thrust was brought down when the plane touched down.

It is worth noting though, that notwithstanding the issues and errors that occured in the coughpit, the report did also make several findings regarding significant failures within the Flight Operations Branch at Qantas (and some issues in CASA as well).

 

[trooper]

NZ operated flights at 18,000 ft...

Hardly the territory of the "see and be seen" crowd I would have thought....

..and having been booted from an exit row on the last long haul QF flight I took - to provide more seatroom for a grossly obese old chap (who couldn't even get out of the seat without assistance) I'll suggest they are not necessarily the "poster boys" for best safety practice...

I'll leave it to your imagination how well he would have performed the "duties" of the exit row...

Not actually dangerous you say? Yep.. I actually agree... just as I think NZ's (and others) decision to fly at "clear" altitudes does not mark them as "unsafe"....

 

[markis10]

NZ operated flights at 18,000 ft...

Hardly the territory of the "see and be seen" crowd I would have thought....

I agree, DJ are running sub FL200 flights, while JQ30 just did a normal profile approach from FL360 through the forecast ash cloud and QF993 is on normal climb passing FL230, one gets the feeling commercial considerations of flying aircraft at sub FL200 where a factor in QF's "safety" decisions!

ADL might be an issue tomorrow morning!

 

[pshepvic]

Just landed back, safely, on DJ1369 from LST. Flew at 18,000 feet the whole way.

 

[LiamR]

Just landed back, safely, on DJ1369 from LST. Flew at 18,000 feet the whole way.

Damn. No DJ lunch for me. Ern.. I mean... You managed to get home safely...thats Great!

Did any of the flight crew mention what was going on? Offer some sort of explaination.

 

[markis10]

Did any of the flight crew mention what was going on? Offer some sort of explaination.

What sort of explanation were you looking for, they flew under the forecast ash?

QF fares for the next few days give an indication of the backlog they are facing when compared to DJ!

 

[concorde71]

What sort of explanation were you looking for, they flew under the forecast ash?

QF fares for the next few days give an indication of the backlog they are facing when compared to DJ!

I think Liam was referring to the announcement / lunch.... Everybody knows why they are flying at 18K ft :-|

 

[LiamR]

I think Liam was referring to the announcement / lunch.... Everybody knows why they are flying at 18K ft :-|

No, I was referring to what the pilot said about the ash cloud, whenever things like this happen on Qantas the pilot always takes a moment to explain to the cabin whats happening and explains how his actions are the best and safest options. Would be interesting to see what the Virgin pilot had to say...

 

[concorde71]

I shall crawl back under my rock:-|

 

[pshepvic]

Well Liam there is still a chance my flight to Sydney tomorrow might be delayed anyway, so be on standby!

The Captain was very good. Couldn't quote him word for word, but it was along these lines: "Apologies for the delay out of LST today, obviously there have been some unusual weather impacts which have caused some interruptions. Today we'll be flying lower than normal, at 18,000 feet, which does impact the fuel use but still gets us there safely. We've thoroughly investigated the conditions and it has all been signed off and checked ad nauseam, so I'm absolutely confident that it is safe to fly."

He even apologised again as we came into Melbourne for the delay - was only about 20 minutes which in the scheme of things was pretty good I think!

 

[Mal]

IMO I think that this will be a P.R. disaster for Qantas Group, the "safety conservatives" in Coward St, have made a big blunder.

In the end, Virgin Australia can get you there, when Qantas won't... this will change the face of future business bookings, well done VAA!

As strange as it may sound, it costs more to ground the flights than have them running properly. I doubt the bean counters were involved. And, no I won't be "rewarding" DJ with loyalty based on this incident. In fact, I believe they made the wrong call.

 

[pshepvic]

Oh one interesting thing was they had 5 FA's on the flight instead of the usual 4. Wonder if that's getting ready for the full separation of J class to have a dedicated FA and 4 in the back, or if they were just getting an FA back up to Melbourne?