Should airlines pay for services they request a medical professional to perform?

[JohnK]

Would it be fair to expect an airline to pay for services they request a medical professional to perform? Or should say medicare, private health insurance or even travel insurance cover these situations?

I know medical professionals would normally assist anyway but they may have paid for a business class airfare for the flight and spent most of the flight down the back in economy attending to a passenger.

 

[Hvr]

An interesting question that begs several others?

Why should the airline pay? Why not the patient?

What if the medical person refuses to assist until payment is guaranteed?

Would the medico have the right to refuse?

I think it would cause more problems than it would solve.

 

[Mal]

There are potential liability issues with a medical person being paid. I don't think medical staff should give their time for free, and do think that they need to be rewarded in some way.

I believe Qantas has a policy for this already.

 

[JohnK]

From memory docjames related a story where he was flying on a business class award redemption and spent most of the flight in economy attending to a patient. I don't think he was compensated and the least QF could have done in this situation would have been to refund his QFF points.

I know there are a lot of complications and I also believe most medical professionals would want to assist in some way.

Why should their flight be ruined?

 

[drmikki]

I know there are a lot of complications and I also believe most medical professionals would want to assist in some way.

Why should their flight be ruined?

I believe most would want to assist, perhaps barring those in hands-off specialties (radiology, pathology, psychiatry) who may not feel comfortable in that situation. As previously mentioned implied payment affects the liability insurance, especially in places like the US. Our insurers currently cover us in this scenario under "good samaritan" practice however monetary payment may void this. The other thing medical professionals have to consider is how much of the QP they enjoyed prior to boarding, since alcohol consumption may also void the liability insurance! (And impair judgement in some cases)

I do agree that some small gesture (not financial compensation) would be appreciated - whether it be something like a points refund for award flights, J upgrade for the remainder of the flight if in Y or a bottle of wine on disembarking.

QF staff, if you're readiing this, I don't drink but some J pyjamas would go down a treat!

 

[pshepvic]

I know my father has attended several medical emergencies on flights in the past, including having the Captain divert a QF HNL-SYD flight to NAN to offload an extremely unwell passenger.

QF provided a significant points donation and a generous voucher towards another trip as a result. On a shorter haul flight with SAS they also gave a voucher and bottle of top shelf aged whiskey!

(On the note of medical emergencies, and this relates to another thread about a woman that died on a flight, he said the QF crew were brilliant and in that sort of situation as a passenger he wouldn't want to be on any other airline).

 

[docjames]

From memory docjames related a story where he was flying on a business class award redemption and spent most of the flight in economy attending to a patient. I don't think he was compensated and the least QF could have done in this situation would have been to refund his QFF points.

Without re-hashing the whole story, essentially that's correct. However I was disappointed not to receive any formal thank-you from Qantas - a letter would have sufficed. Note I did not want "payment". I did feel a bit stiff though - I should have redeemed a YASA instead of a JASA! I will also add the crew were generous (two bottles of wine). It was more the lack of acknowledment from QF management - the crew I couldnt fault and they were most thankful. A simple letter or email would have done it (even a form letter).

The issue of "payment" is vexed as there become medico-legal liabilities, whereas to my understanding, provided you act reasonably, you are covered by the good samaritan act, as well as most medicolegal insurers (again, provided you act "reasonably"). As drmikki points out, Most doctors will gladly assist unless they feel way out of their depth, and in many cases, the (older) clinical knowledge a radiologist or psychiatrist may posess, is still better than a lay-person.

The definition of reasonable could well be open to interpretation.

FWIW I seem to have quite a regular "strike-rate" of being on a/c where a doctor is "requested". My understanding is they cannot force you to assist either - you may be incapacitated and unable to assist (read: too much J class wine list!), or indeed, a PhD in a non-medical field. My MIL travels as Dr when her PhD is in history of immigration. In the case JohnK mentions, they clearly knew (per manifest) I was the only Dr on the flight, but they had to wait for me to "enquire" whether there was a problem, and ask whether I could help. I managed that just a few seconds before they made a PA announcement.

 

[kpc]

On my recent flight, Lax - Syd, I was 1/2 asleep with some sleeping pills and a couple of glasses of wine onboard, when I heard the call for medical assistance:shock:...in my groggy state, I wondered whether I was in a fit state to assist, and decided I wasn't...but decided if they asked again, I would make an enquiry as to what sort of assistance is required. The second announcement never came.

Upon landing I realised the passenger next to me was also a medico, and he slept through the whole thing....

PS: If I did asssist, I would NEVER expect payment in these circumstances but some token of appreciation from the airline would be nice. I may even save the airline a lot of money by avoiding a medical diversion:mrgreen:; but I have delusions of grandeur that one day I might have to ask the caption of a full A380 / 747 to land ASAP!!:mrgreen::!:

 

[oz_mark]

FWIW I seem to have quite a regular "strike-rate" of being on a/c where a doctor is "requested". My understanding is they cannot force you to assist either - you may be incapacitated and unable to assist (read: too much J class wine list!), or indeed, a PhD in a non-medical field.

The last few times I have heard the request, they specifically asked for a 'medical doctor'. But certainly everytime this discussion comes up the liability issue rears up - and it can get messy on international flights. Certainly I think there should be some acknowledgemnt from the airline though, and something could be given.

I was also under the impression that the airlines had medical folk on the ground that could be contacted.

 

[docjames]

The last few times I have heard the request, they specifically asked for a 'medical doctor'.

Yes, as the manifest just has title used with the booking. Similarly, some medicos may be booked as Mr (for a host of reasons).

 

[kpc]

But certainly everytime this discussion comes up the liability issue rears up - and it can get messy on international flights.

My medical indemnity insurance covers "Good Samaritan Acts".

Certainly I think there should be some acknowledgemnt from the airline though, and something could be given.

Agree 100%

I was also under the impression that the airlines had medical folk on the ground that could be contacted.

correct....With QF, you can speak / consult someone on the ground, and some airlines have the ability to transmit ECGs etc..

 

[Princess Fiona]

No I don't think Airlines should pay. I think if you have the skills, and are not affected by sleeping pills etc then it is the right thing to do. I have helped out a couple of times in flights (QF) and on both occasions have received a gift from the FA's and a follow up letter and travel voucher. I don't expect anything and would happily do it for nix

 

[dfcatch]

My last LAX-BNE flight had a PA request not long after takeoff, and the woman next to me in 26A was a doctor. She sat back down after about 15 mins.

5 mins later the CSM came back and politely asked for her assistance one more time and escorted her to the J cabin for the rest of the flight.

I thought it was professionally and appropriately handled.

 

[anat0l]

Although I'm not a doctor or a medical professional (although I am senior first aid trained), if I were to give my services in response to an airline request then I wouldn't care about the airline nor any acknowledgment, perhaps not even from the victim. All I'd be caring about is the victim themselves.

If no one were to respond to an airline's request for medical assistance, they will deal with it the best they can otherwise.

We do these kinds of things because of the kinds of humans we are, not because of the reward per se. Even if there were considerable compensation payable to people who give their services, those who wouldn't normally put their hand up still wouldn't, because that's the kind of human that they are.

Let's not get to hung up on "ruining" someone's flight, either. A measure of "compensation" does not make up for a "ruined" flight, no matter how you look at it. Sure, it might make you feel better, but at the end of the day you did what you did because it was your choice to help another human being, not to be compensated or even acknowledged. If a gazetted compensation was on offer, someone who is a doctor who did not happen to be able to offer their services first compared to another doctor may claim that their flight was ruined because they wanted the compensation! Also, if the situation was in a shop or on any given street, your day may be disrupted by helping someone in need. Would you pursue them or anyone else for compensation because your day's schedule was messed up? (Perhaps that kind of explains why less and less people help one another these days, apart from the obvious LOTFAP-induced liability issues)

At the end of the day, you may have saved someone's life and given them more time in the world to spend living and with loved ones. That is satisfying.

P.S. I sincerely apologise if the above sounds like I'm taking a medical professional's life for granted.

 

[DrAndyC]

I seem to have a high strike rate as well. On a QF from Beijing to Sydney some years ago I even witnessed a passenger 2 seats in front of me in Y feign an asthma attack (it wasn't even a panic attack) in an attempt to get a J seat. I watched ready to assist but the male FA was so thorough and effective at ascertaining what was going on (ie - a lot of bull) that I did nothing. I wonder if this sort of thing happens often?

I know of a colleague who had to do a tracheostomy many years ago on an asian carrier. Most of the calls I have had have been for panic (thankfully).

 

[oz_mark]

I seem to have a high strike rate as well. On a QF from Beijing to Sydney some years ago I even witnessed a passenger 2 seats in front of me in Y feign an asthma attack (it wasn't even a panic attack) in an attempt to get a J seat. I watched ready to assist but the male FA was so thorough and effective at ascertaining what was going on (ie - a lot of bull) that I did nothing. I wonder if this sort of thing happens often?

I have often suspected so. Business class has some remarkable recuperative powers on some people.

Doing a trans-con once we were diverting to Adelaide, but after moving the passenger to business class (which was to enable them to get him off quickly), he remarkably recovered.!

 

[anat0l]

On a QF from Beijing to Sydney some years ago I even witnessed a passenger 2 seats in front of me in Y feign an asthma attack (it wasn't even a panic attack) in an attempt to get a J seat. I watched ready to assist but the male FA was so thorough and effective at ascertaining what was going on (ie - a lot of bull) that I did nothing. I wonder if this sort of thing happens often?

I have often suspected so. Business class has some remarkable recuperative powers on some people.

Doing a trans-con once we were diverting to Adelaide, but after moving the passenger to business class (which was to enable them to get him off quickly), he remarkably recovered.!

I'm sure there's been an article written somewhere sometime about this, either reporting about it or suggesting it as a way to get "upgraded". (I'm sure if there was it's been duly destroyed by now...)

I have a bit to say about the demographic of the people who try this tactic - it's race/culture based and a little bit too assumptive for good standing, so I'll refrain.

 

[Nigelinoz]

Coincidentally I was discussing this very issue with my GP last week,she was asking whether J class on the A380 was any good as she had received complimentary return tickets from Singapore airlines,apparently she was on a flight with SQ to Singapore last year when a pregnant passenger went into premature labor,my GP assisted and travelled with the woman to the hospital when the aircraft landed in Singapore.
She (my GP is a woman) didn't think anything about it and just saw it as part of her job and was very surprised when she received a personal thank you letter from the captain of the flight and two return J class tickets for Sydney to anywhere in Europe on the A380.
Cheers
N'oz

 

[drron]

I had a similiar experience to docjames though I was in paid J.Spent most of the in Y looking after an elderly woman who had a stroke.From staff no problems-a bottle of wine and a model QF plane but no word at all from QF management although my details were taken.
On JAL after a similiar call I had a letter from the President of JAL waiting when I got home.
Never an upgrade,FF points or travel voucher despite all the stories.And I would never ask for those.
I have also on one occasion ignored the call for the same reasons as KPC-I did enquire of the FA and he told me they already had 6 doctors attending!
The best reward was that on both of these occasions I had written a letter for the treating doctors on what had happened.On both occasions heard back from the consultants involved.

 

[drmikki]

I'm glad I don't have the strike rate of you guys as I tend to get most of my sleep on planes. Although that said I guess I may have slept through calls.
I attended once when I was a medical student, answered on the 3rd call (they sounded increasingly desperate...) on an AirNZ AKL-PER and wasn't much - a bit of panic + gastro. The healing powers of a blood pressure measurement and some reassurance and the patient was fine. I think I got a J class toiletries bag from the CSM as thanks - from memory he also offered me some J wine which I refused.

On a JQ flight OOL-MEL I watched a woman a few rows ahead quite intently knowing I would have to attend to her sometime during the flight but thankfully she decided she was too unwell to travel and deboarded prior to takeoff.

In Perth, you tend to know a large number of the doctors, so on more than one occasion I have seen 4 or 5 doctors of varying specialties on board - reassuring to know that we could handle almost anything. Also pays to work out where the senior guys are hiding in case you respond and need backup!

Which leads me to a bad medical joke: (Apologies )

An anaesthetist is flying in his Y class seat on a flight, when he hears the dreaded "Is there a doctor on board" call. He looks around, and noone else seems to be responding, so he decides to do the right thing and pushes his call button. The FA attends, and he tells her "I am an anaesthetist, can I help?" She replies "Thank God you are an anaesthetist, that's what we needed. We need you in J, there's an orthopaedic surgeon who needs his light adjusted!"