Should airlines pay for services they request a medical professional to perform?

[medhead]

It was 37 hours straight awake and operating - but the way administration get around it is by saying you must be in-house 07.30-2300 then oncall until you handover the next day to the next sucker; then you work a normal workday (ie til about 6pm, but can be much later). However, if you happen be in-house and awake all night (not uncommon) they can point to the roster and say "Oh, she didn't HAVE to be in house, but it was busy and she got called in..."

I think my oncall record was 96 hours... I didn't leave the hospital, but they did provide a nice apartment where you could sleep. I'm not sure if there is a limit for on-call hours - I think it has to be 1 in 3 or more though, otherwise you get bonus pay.

Sounds like cough. Sounds like at times it would have been illegal, if we look at each individual night. The actual duty hours are much more important than the roster. Also even if you work less than 16 hours, there is still a requirement for a minimum break before the next shift. Anyway, this is all academic as it is in the past and theory can't take it back.

 

[beardoc]

Even if I've been travelling for 24 hours and am jet-lagged, it's probable that I have had more sleep than if you were brought into a major hospital when I've been on call.... I believe my record was 37 hours straight without sleep, constantly operating and seeing patients. And yes, that was in 2011, not the 1970s, and it's (technically) legal. :shock:

As recently as three weeks ago, I did 34 hours continuously without a break - no lunch, no dinner, at 3am the scout nurse asked kids ward to vacuum chute up some blocks of ice cream and mixed it with milo and milk to make thickshakes, which everyone stopped for a few minutes to enjoy. It was an six and a half hour emergency procedure. I got in my car after I got out of work on the 2nd day and just sat there for a further 15 minutes and just reflected on what I did. And although I wouldn't say that's optimal, if I was on a flight and I was tired, I would think that I could still add something if asked to do so - airline staff are not able to put cannulas in, for example. And IV adrenaline and an endotracheal tube is kind of useful at various times during airline emergencies. Even the tired me is better at doing that than just airline staff doing BLS.

 

[k_sheep]

Probably not in my case

Well that's what you get for doing a "useful" specialty See I'm a bit too lazy for that, and finished my clinical medicine career as early as possible!

 

[simonsyd]

That's the bit that sticks - I'd just like to see a thank you letter from QF management.

Add that to the list of things i'd like to see from QF.

You are correct ther should be a letter from customer care. All crew reports of medical incidents on board are reviewed in the QF medical department and categorised as to the level of help provided. All cases where a medical professional have been involved on board are flagged to customer care with a category of help provided for follow up. Would not surprise me if customer care are a bit lax at times, it is a source of complaints frequently.
In certain cases eg avoided diversion or prolonged complex assistance on board it has previously been the practice of the QF docs to contact the medical professional personally.

 

[rechoboam]

As recently as three weeks ago, I did 34 hours continuously without a break - no lunch, no dinner, at 3am the scout nurse asked kids ward to vacuum chute up some blocks of ice cream and mixed it with milo and milk to make thickshakes, which everyone stopped for a few minutes to enjoy. It was an six and a half hour emergency procedure. I got in my car after I got out of work on the 2nd day and just sat there for a further 15 minutes and just reflected on what I did. And although I wouldn't say that's optimal, if I was on a flight and I was tired, I would think that I could still add something if asked to do so - airline staff are not able to put cannulas in, for example. And IV adrenaline and an endotracheal tube is kind of useful at various times during airline emergencies. Even the tired me is better at doing that than just airline staff doing BLS.

A little off-topic but-
I never had to do that partly because I chose specialties that are strictly shift work or long but less intense on calls. But if I had to, I swear I would have sued them and left clinical medicine (probably would have no choice). Doctors have been sued and had their career almost destroyed because of decisions made during sleep deprivation, like the young doctor in Queensland. I realize there would be a shortage of doctors but that will improve shortly. And there is no reason shift limits couldn't be imposed over a five-seven year period. As I think I said above, 32 hours nonstop is a national scandal putting the public at risk of great personal harm. Would the public be happy for a junior doctor to be drawing up drugs for their baby after 32 hours of no sleep? And the response of the Queensland government was to suggest caffeine as a stimulant (admittedly amongst other things)

 

[yo yo ma]

Doctors have been sued and had their career almost destroyed because of decisions made during sleep deprivation, like the young doctor in Queensland.

I worked with this doctor and would have no hesitation sending my children to him (if it is the case you are talking about). As well as fatigue, were some other factors involved in the case as I have heard it.

 

[nlagalle]

It was 37 hours straight awake and operating - but the way administration get around it is by saying you must be in-house 07.30-2300 then oncall until you handover the next day to the next sucker; then you work a normal workday (ie til about 6pm, but can be much later). However, if you happen be in-house and awake all night (not uncommon) they can point to the roster and say "Oh, she didn't HAVE to be in house, but it was busy and she got called in..."

I think my oncall record was 96 hours... I didn't leave the hospital, but they did provide a nice apartment where you could sleep. I'm not sure if there is a limit for on-call hours - I think it has to be 1 in 3 or more though, otherwise you get bonus pay.

Never again shall I complain about the hours I do.. I am surprised that you guys still pull those sort of hours though.

 

[AVC]

Very interesting thread.

I am a paramedic (although now in management, so not much hands on).

We only recently (about 18 months ago I think) went from 14hr night shifts (which would routinely get extended by more than 2 hours) to 12 hours shifts that would only get extended in case of high-priority urgent cases. Which is still long enough. With some on-call officers having to do several calls between 2 x 12 hour shifts.

Having said that a lot has been addressed by way of officer fatigue in recent years. But there is still a long way to go. When I joined nearly 20 years ago, it would be common to do an 18 hour shift, then be expected back in another 6 hours to do it again.

Judging on the hit rate for "assists" I may need to carry my gear with me (although I usually do, but checked). Might need to check the trauma shears though, lol.

On the question of "should airlines pay?". I say no. Definitely not. But there is no doubt whatsoever that the airline should at least offer some sort of thank you. Even a form letter as someone suggested. That is just common decency.

 

[rechoboam]

I worked with this doctor and would have no hesitation sending my children to him (if it is the case you are talking about). As well as fatigue, were some other factors involved in the case as I have heard it.

I don't know him but certainly didn't mean to imply that he did anything wrong. I felt for him terribly after I read the articles. Actually now that I reflect I don't even know if he was sued, just recall that he was subject to some kind of process.

I know many doctors who have psychologically collapsed after days on call with no hour limits (am not referring to that case). I worked with a doctor who died of a neurological condition aggravated by a one week continuous on call stint. And several who have had to leave clinical practice. Although people are vaguely aware that junior doctors work long hours I don't think they realize just how bad it can be especially in some surgical specialties.

And in response to your observation I wouldn't want me, my best friend, the greatest doctor in the world, or anyone else treating my child after 32 hours of continuous work!