Star Alliance Points denied on codeshare flight

[luxon]

Flew business class Sydney Johannesburg return last July.South African Airways issued the ticket and I requested Star Alliance membership with Thai Royal Orchid be attached to the booking. The flights were on Qantas codeshare operated with QF equipment.
Thia Royal Orchid have refused to credit points as the QF equipment was not part of the Star Alliance group.
Similarly QF would not allocate points as SAA was not part of its group at that date (Now they are evidently)
Beware of codeshare flights or you may end up with nil award points. Most disappointing.

 

[notzac]

Hi luxon, welcome to AFF!

Codeshares are always a tricky issue for obtaining FF points - QF has plenty of examples where they won't credit points for partner flight codeshares that are operated on another airlines' metal.

You should be able to get points in SAA's program?

 

[NYCguy]

Ah, yes... The old SA7700/7701 trick...

I got caught by that once as a part of a RTW fare. UA weren't interested, and neither was QF.

I wrote it off and got on with my life. Trust me, it's not worth having a hypertensive crisis about. You won't win. :evil:

 

[danmancs]

I had a similar experience with QF regarding codeshares but in a slightly different way...

I booked award flights for my partner and I to go to Fiji for a week for her 40th birthday. The flights I wanted weren't available online so I called the hotline and with WP status they managed to find me the ones I wanted, great!

So, off we trot to SYD a few hours early to take advantage of the F lounge, figured she could have some kind of spa treatment or something, while I had a few moets, only to get to reception and be told that because we were flying on the FJ codeshare number, we were not welcome in the F lounge.

Given that I had used QF points to book it, booked it through the QFF service centre, QF had issued the tickets and charged me the fees, but they had decided to issue our tickets under the FJ no (presumably because QF tickets sell for higher than FJ), I was really angry. Not to mention it was the mrs's 40th!

Anyway, we went down to the J lounge and complained to the duty manager who was understanding, but unmoving on the issue, however he said he would see what he could do and disapeared for a while. By this time it was almost time for our flight and we were ropable. So just as we are about to leave the lounge, he comes back to us and apologises some more, and just as I am about to give him a final volley of abuse, he pulls out 2 boarding passes for us in J class, and tells us that they've upgraded us for the inconvienience!

Perhaps they just needed to op-up some people but I like to think it's because they knew they were in the wrong!

 

[serfty]

...

Perhaps they just needed to op-up some people but I like to think it's because they knew they were in the wrong!

Actually they were not "in the wrong".

Same aircraft: FJ flight number - no First lounge access; QF flight number - First class lounge access available.

There are a few threads on this, here's a recent one:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...gram/air-pacific-points-scs-lounge-21962.html

 

[anat0l]

Codeshares are always going to be sticky things.

Lounge access, FFP crediting with rules related to booking class codes, operating metal (alliance or non-alliance), elite benefits.....when you book a codeshare you have to be careful.

Read all your FFP options, T&Cs and earning rules and take note of any restrictions, otherwise you just may end up disappointed. Ditto lounge access.

 

[trooper]

Within *A at least the rule seems to be that a codeshare will never credit if operated by a non-alliance airline... Of course I'm sure there are some weird exceptions with "close" partners/subsidiaries.....:mrgreen:

That's my take on it anyhow.....

 

[mannej]

OW airlines such as CX and QF (to name a couple) have codeshares operated by non-OW airlines.

CX and MH do codeshare between KUL, HKG and PEN (Generally CX17**), and QF have the SA on a couple of other codeshares.

You can not claim QF FFP on the MH operated CX flight number. (These flights leave around the same time so its one to be wary of)

 

[danmancs]

Actually they were not "in the wrong".

Same aircraft: FJ flight number - no First lounge access; QF flight number - First class lounge access available.

Yes, perhaps technically you are right, however, the basis of my grievance was that I had no part in selecting FJ or QF flight number for our trip - it was done through the 13 12 11 line, was booked using QFF points, the tickets were issued by Qantas, and the fact that FJ is essentially a Qantas airline, means, as far as I am concerned, the decision to print FJ on our award tickets was simply so that they could sell more QF labeled tickets at a premium price, and as such, is a QF internal issue, not mine, and hence they were ethically and morally in the wrong.

Aside from anything else, in such a situation, it is extremely poor customer service to deny a very good customer access to the F lounge, especially after hearing the facts of the matter. Had I just purchased a cheaparse FJ fare and been denied, I would have understood, but that was not the case - it was QF that bought the cheaparse fare then tried to save even more money by not letting us in the lounge!

 

[anat0l]

Yes, perhaps technically you are right, however, the basis of my grievance was that I had no part in selecting FJ or QF flight number for our trip - it was done through the 13 12 11 line, was booked using QFF points, the tickets were issued by Qantas, and the fact that FJ is essentially a Qantas airline, means, as far as I am concerned, the decision to print FJ on our award tickets was simply so that they could sell more QF labeled tickets at a premium price, and as such, is a QF internal issue, not mine, and hence they were ethically and morally in the wrong.

Aside from anything else, in such a situation, it is extremely poor customer service to deny a very good customer access to the F lounge, especially after hearing the facts of the matter. Had I just purchased a cheaparse FJ fare and been denied, I would have understood, but that was not the case - it was QF that bought the cheaparse fare then tried to save even more money by not letting us in the lounge!

Whether it's extremely poor customer service is debatable.

One thing that is clear is that QF (phone) staff who discuss flight arrangements certainly are not thinking about things about lounge access on the part of the passenger. Whether that is a bad thing or not is another argument. A person trying to help a QFFer obtain an award (or even cash) ticket that they could not otherwise obtain is probably not thinking about lounge access, i.e. they are not issuing you a FJ flight to actively deny you lounge access, they just simply never thought about it.

Besides, how did you exactly request the tickets for the trip to Fiji, and exactly how was it quoted back to you? If you consented to the FJ flight or said that I wanted tickets on this FJ flight, then QF delivered! Once again, they never considered lounge access at all, but should they be doing this...

As frequent flyers on this forum, we are aware of such 'traps' and make bookings accordingly.

I'm not going to open up another argument about what airlines QF owns or has a significant stake in and what kind of oddities this has on things like lounge access, problem support, QFF, etc.

 

[danmancs]

Look, I'm not suggesting for a second that the very helpful lady, who went out of her way to find us seats on the flight, was in any way trying to screw us. I just think that since it was an award flight offered by QF, and there was no benefit to me (IE cheaper fare) in being on the FJ code, they should recognise the difference.

 

[NM]

Yes, perhaps technically you are right, however, the basis of my grievance was that I had no part in selecting FJ or QF flight number for our trip - it was done through the 13 12 11 line, was booked using QFF points, the tickets were issued by Qantas, and the fact that FJ is essentially a Qantas airline, means, as far as I am concerned, the decision to print FJ on our award tickets was simply so that they could sell more QF labeled tickets at a premium price, and as such, is a QF internal issue, not mine, and hence they were ethically and morally in the wrong.

Before claiming the process to be "ethically and morally in the wrong" it may be worth checking the Qantas FF membership terms and conditions. There are only two cases where award flights on partner airlines book under QF flight codes. In all other cases, awards are only available using the flight code of the operating airline. See section 14.3.8 of the Qantas Frequent Flyer membership terms and Conditions.

14.3.8 The following route and airline restrictions apply to Classic Award bookings:
Air Niugini (PX): Classic Award bookings can only be made on PX international flights.
Air Pacific (FJ): Classic Award bookings can only be made on FJ international flights and FJ domestic flights between Nadi and Suva or Labasa and Suva and Labasa.
Air Vanuatu (NF): Classic Award bookings can only be made on NF international flights.
British Airways (BA): Domestic flights within the UK operate with only an Economy cabin. Business class is still available for redemption and Members booked in this class will be seated in Economy but have access to the Business class lounge facilities and are entitled to Business class baggage allowances.
Cathay Pacific (CX): Classic Award bookings are not available on Cathay Pacific flights between Hong Kong and Hanoi.
Cobham (NC) (formerly National Jet Systems): Classic Award bookings can only be made between Perth and Christmas Island, Perth and Cocos Island, and Christmas Island and Cocos Island.
El Al (LY): Classic Award bookings may be made only for flights between Israel and Asia, India, South Africa, Europe and the Middle East.
JAL (JL): Classic Award bookings are not available on Japan domestic flights in First class.
Jetstar Airlines (JQ, 3K and VF): Classic Award bookings on flights operated by Jetstar (JQ) must be booked using the QF airline code. Classic Awards on flights operated by Jetstar Asia (3K) or Valuair (VF) must be booked using the 3K or VF airline code respectively, and are not combinable with Qantas, oneworld Alliance Airlines or other Airline Partner Itineraries.
LAN (LA): Classic Award bookings are not available on the LA airline code from Australia or New Zealand to Santiago. Classic Awards must be booked using the QF airline code.
South African Airways (SA): Classic Award bookings can only be made on SA domestic flights within South Africa and SA international flights between Australia and South Africa.

This has nothing to do with morals or ethics. Its all about the codeshare agreements they have with the different airlines. Different codeshare agreements have different conditions for booking/selling award space. In the case of FJ, the agreement is that QFF awards must be booked under the FJ flight number. There is never any X or U inventory available under the QF codeshare, so no way for Qantas FF to issue an award ticket using QF flight number of an FJ flight.

Aside from anything else, in such a situation, it is extremely poor customer service to deny a very good customer access to the F lounge, especially after hearing the facts of the matter. Had I just purchased a cheaparse FJ fare and been denied, I would have understood, but that was not the case - it was QF that bought the cheaparse fare then tried to save even more money by not letting us in the lounge!

I fail to see how there is any difference between "purchasing" the ticket with cash (i.e. "a cheaparse FJ fare") or with QF FF points makes any difference regarding lounge access conditions. I do not see how this has anything to do with Qantas trying to "save money". They have provided exactly what is defined in the membership terms and conditions. Expecting something different and complaining when the expectation is not met seems a little unrealistic .

 

[oz_mark]

Yes, perhaps technically you are right, however, the basis of my grievance was that I had no part in selecting FJ or QF flight number for our trip - it was done through the 13 12 11 line, was booked using QFF points, the tickets were issued by Qantas, and the fact that FJ is essentially a Qantas airline, means, as far as I am concerned, the decision to print FJ on our award tickets was simply so that they could sell more QF labeled tickets at a premium price, and as such, is a QF internal issue, not mine, and hence they were ethically and morally in the wrong.

Classic awards generally book under the flight number of the operating airline, as that is where the award seats are to be found.

 

[v8Statesman]

.....So just as we are about to leave the lounge, he comes back to us and apologises some more, and just as I am about to give him a final volley of abuse, he pulls out 2 boarding passes for us in J class, and tells us that they've upgraded us for the inconvienience!

Perhaps they just needed to op-up some people but I like to think it's because they knew they were in the wrong!

Sounds like a positive outcome and the J boss has excellent Customer service skills. Even though in the very fine print Qantas had done it right. There was an expectation (even though incorrect) of a customer that had not been met. The airline was 100% in their right to do nothing. But for the sake of customer satisfaction they pro-actively took steps to appease the unsatisfied customer!

Well done Qantas in this situation.