Air Traffic Control Issues

[Brissy1]

No trainee involved

Well that would certainly change things.

If ATSBs statement "training underway in the tower" and
Airservices statement "supervising controller immediately identified the potential for conflict and directed the controller to cancel the take-off clearance"
but there's no trainee, then yes sounds like a cover-up

 

[Melburnian1]

The episode isn't helping to instil confidence in airline passengers within, out of and into Australia.

A cover-up would be most unlikely to occur in a more easily visible surface mode such as rail over which the ATSB also has jurisdiction, so it ought not be tolerated in aviation or for that matter, marine.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

When did social media get added as a step in the aviation incident reporting process?

I must have missed that change to official procedures

It happened on Sunday.
It wasn't reported to the ATSB until Thursday lunchtime.

The Media is not the ATSB.

Wasn't reported to the ATSB until Thursday lunchtime.
According to the head of the ATSB.

 

[Quickstatus]

Wasn't reported to the ATSB until Thursday lunchtime.

The media is still not the ATSB.

 

[RooFlyer]

The media is still not the ATSB.

I believe @esseeeayeenn was talking about reporting to the ATSB, not the ‘media’, when querying why it wasn’t reported originally. It was others I think including yourself who just brought the media and social media up.

I find it impossible to understand or accept why this wasn’t reported on Sunday and has taken several days to emerge. Was it covered up?

It happened on Sunday.
It wasn't reported to the ATSB until Thursday lunchtime.

Wasn't reported to the ATSB until Thursday lunchtime.
According to the head of the ATSB.

The ASB announced to the media very soon after they discovered it, so it only ‘emerged’ then.

 

[Melburnian1]

This is from a long article online in 'The Australian' where the President of the applicable union ,Civil Air, denies there's a problem with (excessive) sick leave being taken in Sydney.

The article is (as usual) paywalled, but as a subscriber this was interesting:

"...It was understood there had been some resentment or resistance to international recruits, whose pay recognised their years of service overseas.

That had created a situation where a controller with nine years of experience overseas, for example, would be on a higher pay grade than their training manager or supervisor who may only have four or five years experience on the job.

Mr Nugent declined to comment on the policy but said there was still a lot of work to do in fixing the culture at Airservices..."

----------------------------

This viewer comment (not by me) was the first to appear:

Let's hear how much sick leave is being taken. Wonder if it sort of balances out the overtime being claimed?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I do think we need some sort of inquiry to determine whether Australian ATC is as efficient as it can be. Long gaps between aircraft at Sydney today don’t seem productive. And if there is a good reason for it, then we need transparency.

The travelling public are paying for it and we should get the best service possible.

 

[oz_mark]

I do think we need some sort of inquiry to determine whether Australian ATC is as efficient as it can be. Long gaps between aircraft at Sydney today don’t seem productive. And if there is a good reason for it, then we need transparency.

The travelling public are paying for it and we should get the best service possible.

It's hardly going to be efficient as possible with all the constraints in place in Sydney. For example, there is a hard limit of 80 movements per hour.

 

[markis10]

Long gaps between aircraft at Sydney today don’t seem productive. And if there is a good reason for it, then we need transparency.

There is a good reason for it, Sydney has a movement limit on it. The Sydney Airport Demand Management Act 1997(the Act) and associated legislative instruments govern demand management at Sydney Airport. The Act establishes the strict maximum movement limit of up to 80 movements per regulated hour. The total number of aircraft movements at Sydney Airport cannot exceed 1,360 movements per day.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well there’s also the threading of flights using the same runway for takeoffs and landings.

If that as efficient as possible?

The other day the short runway at Sydney was empty… nothing waiting to depart, nothing coming in. Yet a Rex Saab was holding up a number of wide bodies including a couple of a380s as it meandered in to land on the long runway.

The shorter runway wasn’t closed as there were other flights using it before and after.

time to change the legislation too if that’s a major issue.

 

[Melburnian1]

There is a good reason for it, Sydney has a movement limit on it. The Sydney Airport Demand Management Act 1997(the Act) and associated legislative instruments govern demand management at Sydney Airport. The Act establishes the strict maximum movement limit of up to 80 movements per regulated hour. The total number of aircraft movements at Sydney Airport cannot exceed 1,360 movements per day.

Isn't there also a limit of 20 movements per quarter hour, that sometimes adds an additional layer of complexity?

 

[Quickstatus]

Isn't there also a limit of 20 movements per quarter hour,

Yes 20/15min in a rolling 80/hr

 

[Melburnian1]

The other day the short runway at Sydney was empty… nothing waiting to depart, nothing coming in. Yet a Rex Saab was holding up a number of wide bodies including a couple of a380s as it meandered in to land on the long runway.

A few years ago, the idea of moving small planes such as SAAB 340Bs to Bankstown was floated, but IIRC lobbying from rural interests saw any such proposal fairly quickly scuppered.

Obviously air ambulances would be exempt from any new restriction on small planes and there's also the possible allegation of favouritism if for instance QFd Q400s were allowed to continue to use SYD but Rex and Link Airways SAABs were prohibited.

At face value it seems a troubling waste of fuel to have A333s, B773ERs and A380s as well as numerous A320/A321s and B738s held up because a plane carrying 40 passengers is landing or about to become airborne.

Perhaps I have missed sightings, but at most major airports overseas if not all it isn't common to see small planes as well as the larger ones. England probably has London City Airport (to which I've not been) for 'small' commuter-type traffic.

 

[Warragul]

A few years ago, the idea of moving small planes such as SAAB 340Bs to Bankstown was floated, but IIRC lobbying from rural interests saw any such proposal fairly quickly scuppered.

Yes, relating to easy access to the CBD and flight connections. And that would be the argument today.