Lithium Powerbank Ignites in Qantas Lounge

[milehighclub]

Certain types of matches and lighters have been banned (on Qantas, at least) for years but I’m not sure how accurately that is observed or enforced or could be enforced - yet It’s still a ban.

This is true. Even for smokers, they are actually meant to keep their lighter in their pocket, but how do you tell who is a smoker and therefore ensure this is enforced.

 

[RooFlyer]

But you can take lighters and matches. I don’t think you understand your own analogy.

No, you can't take 'lighters and matches' as a class - have a look at milehigh's post above and here, on Qantas' page

https://www.qantas.com/en-au/baggage/dangerous-goods

What do we see here?



The analogy was about certain types of lighters and matches being banned because of their higher risk - you didn't understand certain types (or Qantas' conditions of carriage, it seems)

Fortunately there are a lot of experts with the knowledge required to conduct appropriate risk assessments so you can stand down.

Thanks for the condescension, but given your demonstrated lack of knowledge on the subject, I don't think you are in a position to opine on others.

 

[justinbrett]

No, you can't take 'lighters and matches' as a class - have a look at milehigh's post above and here, on Qantas' page

https://www.qantas.com/en-au/baggage/dangerous-goods

What do we see here?

View attachment 481082

The analogy was about certain types of lighters and matches being banned because of their higher risk - you didn't understand certain types (or Qantas' conditions of carriage, it seems)



Thanks for the condescension, but given your demonstrated lack of knowledge on the subject, I don't think you are in a position to opine on others.

Ok, let’s join the dots..

You can take certain types of powerbanks, the ones that have been certified to have the necessary safety features and certification.

There are already some checks on powerbanks for restrictions on capacity, but could easily be extended to prohibit certain brands/models and require specific certification marks.

Like China has done.

 

[RooFlyer]

Ok, let’s join the dots..

You can take certain types of powerbanks, the ones that have been certified to have the necessary safety features and certification.

There are already some checks on powerbanks for restrictions on capacity, but could easily be extended to prohibit certain brands/models and require specific certification marks.

Like China has done.

Well done on joining those dots! China is doing it one way. Emirates, as mentioned in posts 51 and 53, has taken a different approach (basically can't use them in flight, must be in seat pocket, and other restrictions), which I thought a good step. But EKs rule may not be observed - someone could still have something charging in the overhead locker.

As I've been saying, to some resistance , its a matter of perceived or assessed degree of risk. If power bank fires continue to occur in flight and if their consequences get more serious, the risk of any current policy for an airline or national regulator will be assessed, and there's a good chance that further restrictions will occur.

 

[equus]

China is doing it one way

And how effective is this going to actually be?

Everyone has seen all those knock off goods complete with certificates of authenticity and the lot. Most of the cheap imitation electrical goods already come with all the compliance and certification marks printed on them - but have never been anywhere near the certification process.

 

[RooFlyer]

And how effective is this going to actually be?

Everyone has seen all those knock off goods complete with certificates of authenticity and the lot. Most of the cheap imitation electrical goods already come with all the compliance and certification marks printed on them - but have never been anywhere near the certification process.

Exactly. I was thinking ... China ... compliance ...

 

[Aeryn]

This is true. Even for smokers, they are actually meant to keep their lighter in their pocket, but how do you tell who is a smoker and therefore ensure this is enforced.

Very easy to smell a smoker

 

[justinbrett]

Well done on joining those dots! China is doing it one way. Emirates, as mentioned in posts 51 and 53, has taken a different approach (basically can't use them in flight, must be in seat pocket, and other restrictions), which I thought a good step. But EKs rule may not be observed - someone could still have something charging in the overhead locker.

As I've been saying, to some resistance , its a matter of perceived or assessed degree of risk. If power bank fires continue to occur in flight and if their consequences get more serious, the risk of any current policy for an airline or national regulator will be assessed, and there's a good chance that further restrictions will occur.

Fantastic! We’re now on the same page. I never argued against further restrictions, just a blanket ban. A blanket ban would have to include laptops and phones to be effective, which is not going to happen.

This is a good article discussing statistics on these types of incidents, and while it confirms a 15% increase over 5 years in total thermal runaway reports - this includes other devices such as laptops, smart phones and vapes. On the latter:

Vapes, while carried by only 10% of passengers, were still the leading cause of thermal runaway incidents, responsible for 28% of the reported total.

New Data Shows Battery Incidents on Aircraft Rose 15% Over Five Years - UL Standards & Engagement

Today, ULSE released the Lithium-Ion Battery Incidents in Aviation: 2024 Data Review highlighting the risk of thermal runaway — which can result in batteries catching fire — and of passenger behavior with the rechargeable battery products they bring on board. The new data comes as multiple...

ulse.org

But as I originally said, the risk goes far beyond aviation, which is leading to action beyond airlines and aviation regulators.

Power bank recalls on the rise due to serious burn and property damage risks

The ACCC is urging consumers to be alert to a growing list of recalled wireless power banks, which have the potential to cause serious burns and property damage.

www.accc.gov.au

Lithium battery fires are on the rise — here are the culprit items

The number of fires caused by exploding lithium-ion batteries in WA so far this year is almost double the number of fires for the entire 2020.

www.abc.net.au

So yes, airlines will continue to manage the risk and put in appropriate mitigation strategies, but the main effort has to be in regulation (not Chinese, but strengthening and enforcing existing western certification systems) and customs to stop them being imported (this is already happening, but should be strengthened).

 

[Quickstatus]

No, you can't take 'lighters and matches' as a class

It looks like a ban on lighters and matches to me rather than a "restriction".

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Fantastic! We’re now on the same page. I never argued against further restrictions, just a blanket ban. A blanket ban would have to include laptops and phones to be effective, which is not going to happen.

This is a good article discussing statistics on these types of incidents, and while it confirms a 15% increase over 5 years in total thermal runaway reports - this includes other devices such as laptops, smart phones and vapes. On the latter:

Vapes, while carried by only 10% of passengers, were still the leading cause of thermal runaway incidents, responsible for 28% of the reported total.

New Data Shows Battery Incidents on Aircraft Rose 15% Over Five Years - UL Standards & Engagement

Today, ULSE released the Lithium-Ion Battery Incidents in Aviation: 2024 Data Review highlighting the risk of thermal runaway — which can result in batteries catching fire — and of passenger behavior with the rechargeable battery products they bring on board. The new data comes as multiple...

ulse.org

But as I originally said, the risk goes far beyond aviation, which is leading to action beyond airlines and aviation regulators.

Power bank recalls on the rise due to serious burn and property damage risks

The ACCC is urging consumers to be alert to a growing list of recalled wireless power banks, which have the potential to cause serious burns and property damage.

www.accc.gov.au

Lithium battery fires are on the rise — here are the culprit items

The number of fires caused by exploding lithium-ion batteries in WA so far this year is almost double the number of fires for the entire 2020.

www.abc.net.au

So yes, airlines will continue to manage the risk and put in appropriate mitigation strategies, but the main effort has to be in regulation (not Chinese, but strengthening and enforcing existing western certification systems) and customs to stop them being imported (this is already happening, but should be strengthened).

That’s not the way restrictions and bans work.

You can ban power banks, because they’re not essential in the same way that a phone is, or even potentially a laptop.

One is a risk you have to live with, the other is not.

Same for vape batteries. Not essential.

If you can’t avoid the risk completely, you can try and minimise it as much as reasonably possible.

 

[RooFlyer]

It looks like a ban on lighters and matches to me rather than a "restriction".

You can take “safety matches“ but not “strike anywhere” matches, per the graphic. Hence my careful use of the qualifier some.