Major changes to Velocity Frequent Flyer announced 17/10/24

[HS-TQE]

If Velocity were going downmarket, I'd expect to be seeing things like...

• Adding LCC's as airline partners.
• Removing, or making it harder to redeem flights on, full-service airline partners such as Singapore, United and Qatar.
• Excluding things like checked baggage and entertainment on redemption bookings (except for an extra fee).

To be fair VA does have a one way interline agreement with SQ's LCC Scoot which has VA interline bookings on their website e.g those originating in SE Asia can book VA connections on TR's website.

VFF has made it harder for those that rarely fly VA metal to redeem international bookings and gain a decent amount of points/SCs. Whilst that's somewhat understandable in their aims have customers to spend $$ into VA marketed/operated services in VA/Bain's aim to be "primary domestic carrier" that provides long haul international partner services, that would tick off those FFs that only use VA partners (and rarely fly VA metal) to get points/SCs.

 

[clifford]

that would tick off those FFs that only use VA partners (and rarely fly VA metal) to get points/SCs.

It's certainly ticked me off. I don't fly a lot domestically, but I do fly quite a bit internationally. Qantas understands this, but obviously Bain don't. I guess we'll see within the next couple of years who had the best understanding of the market.

Perhaps both, although if Qantas were smart, they'd make Jetstar more appealing to a cohort of VA flyers, instead of appealing to the lowest of the bottom feeders.

 

[nickyfch]

It's certainly ticked me off. I don't fly a lot domestically, but I do fly quite a bit internationally. Qantas understands this, but obviously Bain don't. I guess we'll see within the next couple of years who had the best understanding of the market.

Perhaps both, although if Qantas were smart, they'd make Jetstar more appealing to a cohort of VA flyers, instead of appealing to the lowest of the bottom feeders.

same here. have kept it for quite a few years despite much less business travel these days, but some international flights on SQ plus making sure I got enough domestically was worth it, I like the economy X and the extra luggage allowance esp when travelling to/from Uk where I could stock up on things from home.
What are people doing instead? I really don't love Qantas. About to change credit card so this decision could factor into it.

 

[nickyfch]

Another question (still trying to work out if I can/if its worth) try to maintain it
are these calculations correct for Syd-lon return trip on 1. singapore vs 2. Qatar? if so, Qatar is the clear winner with an extra 100 credits...

• Outbound:
  • SYD-SIN: 100 Status Credits
  • SIN-LHR: 130 Status Credits
  • Total Outbound: 230 Status Credits
• Inbound:
  • LHR-SIN: 130 Status Credits
  • SIN-SYD: 100 Status Credits
  • Total Inbound: 230 Status Credits

Total for the return trip: 460 Status Credits

—


Outbound:

• SYD-DOH: 160 Status Credits
• DOH-LHR: 120 Status Credits
• Total Outbound: 280 Status Credits

Inbound:

• LHR-DOH: 120 Status Credits
• DOH-SYD: 160 Status Credits
• Total Inbound: 280 Status Credits

Total for the return trip: 560 Status Credits

 

[Vic]

Just looking at a last minute flight booking. Options are direct with choice at $350, and flex at $370, or a connection in flex @$343.
Status earing at 12 per $, I make the difference to be 2 or 3 status credits. Seems like there is no incentive in earning to not fly direct. Have I got this right?

Still in an incentive in terms of departure and arrival time, of course.

Seems like a good change...

 

[MG1]

Just looking at a last minute flight booking. Options are direct with choice at $350, and flex at $370, or a connection in flex @$343.
Status earing at 12 per $, I make the difference to be 2 or 3 status credits. Seems like there is no incentive in earning to not fly direct. Have I got this right?

Still in an incentive in terms of departure and arrival time, of course.

Seems like a good change...

@Vic, that's right. There is no incentive to not go direct now (unless based on price or timing) as SCs are only provided on $.
Personally, I preferred the previous system (as you could get SCs for much lower than 1SC/$12 without too much effort) but the new system will benefit some.

 

[Vic]

@Vic, that's right. There is no incentive to not go direct now (unless based on price or timing) as SCs are only provided on $.
Personally, I preferred the previous system (as you could get SCs for much lower than 1SC/$12 without too much effort) but the new system will benefit some.

I certainly liked the old system when it comes to the situation where business class is often cheaper than flex.
I'm not so sure I'm too upset about the new system, perhaps that I might earn less for business than economy - lol. But being able to just look at price and schedule is somewhere liberating. Especially with the current situation that keeping schedules seems to be challenging for VA.
cheers

 

[aamslfc]

13 years of loyalty to VA undone in barely 4 months.

Yes, VA today is far different to the VA that Borghetti created. But he (and then Scurrah) knew what it took to lure people over from QF and keep them. Bain hasn't got a clue - and it shows with their confused approach to everything (be it faring, lounge experience, in-flight product, FF program, etc).

The danger sign for VA was me starting to check QF and JQ prices for flights, for the first time in over a decade. But then they reached a nadir in the past fortnight in terms of overall experience, and they chose the worst possible time to piss me off, with the QF DSC offer coming out.

I had to make several bookings, so off to QF I went. In a week I've spent barely $5.5k to attain QF WP by November, and another chunk of cash to already be halfway to renewing for next year. All from a standing start. Outside of DSC, that's still SG.

That amount wouldn't get SG under the VA program, and wouldn't get WP under DSC, from a standing start. And for what? I'd rather the benefits in QF - and thus, Oneworld and EK - than the hodge-podge "benefits" you get across the Whitman's sampler that is VA's partner list.

And who, in their right mind, is spending nearly 10k on VA's "network"? Some token flights to ZQN and DPS on a Crash 8 Poo Plane aren't exactly an incentive to spend money on VA.

The flights I booked are for destinations VA doesn't serve, so you have no choice but to fly alternatives like VA's partners. Except partner earn is now being decreased, and its contribution to status attainment/retention has been slashed. So, there goes international spending from VA's partners, and there goes domestic spend from VA.

But with a soft landing to SG and an Amex, I'll still populate the zoo that is the lounge if I have to fly VA out of desperation in the future.

If you don't have the same quality of network, quality of partners, and level of FF benefits as the competition, then you need to blow away the competition with the onboard and pre-flight experience. The old VA understood it, but the new American owners think they can nickel and dime their way to success.

VA weren't perfect under Borghetti, and QF are far from perfect today. But VA this year have disappointed me repeatedly to the point where I was ready to do something I haven't contemplated since 2012. Once you've lost a customer, it's very, very hard to win them back, unless your product offering is head and shoulders above the competition.

VA's next chance to win me back will be in April 2028... assuming they're still an airline by then.

 

[ozstamps]

Well done aamslfc - yes, you are just a very small part of the exodus this year, I am sure.

About to book Latam Biz class QF codeshare flights to Peru, that will give us instant Qantas Status for a few $1000 each, and a heap of miles. At no time in the past decade as a Virgin Platinum would I have even looked at doing that. Would have just blindly booked SQ or Etihad or Qatar etc, to retain status.

The Q3 and Q4 domestic market share stats will be illuminating, with this Qantas double SC promo in place. Virgin market share will drop noticeably I can bet.

It costs 50 times more to attract a new key client in any business, than retaining an existing one. No-one at Virgin realises this basic business reality. They listen to no input.

Qantas is now cheerfully upgrading Platinums for free, as a goodwill gesture, and widely publicising that fact. And Qantas immediately backtracked re NOT counting the current DSC towards lifetime Status after Elites gave them negative feedback about it. Qantas LISTENS.

Virgin are tone deaf. Indeed totally deaf. They take NO notice of anything from once loyal clients, re their mad changes this year. Even when highlighted in national mainstream media, how badly it is all going down with once rusted on loyal elites.

Customer feedback is irrelevant to them - that is a suicide pill for ANY business, in any field.

The junior player should be the one offering these kind of incentives, to keep Elites happy and staying put. They'll stay the junior player forever, doing this brain dead stuff. Driving away a vast slab of elites to Qantas is dumber than dirt.

They MAKE more money by keeping Elites picking choice and Flex and Biz fares out of necessity, to retain status. They clearly do not understand that basic business premise.

I had to make an urgent trip last week, and we booked LITE one way, and used points the other way. SC mean nothing to us now.

Still got row #3 seats, and lounge access, and priority boarding etc. Same experience as always, but at a heap less $$$ cost. Indeed I upgraded the 2 hour paid LITE tix SYD-ADL, for the lowest possible $50 bid. Last year I'd have PAID for Biz, at many $100s a seat more. SC mean zero now, so why bother?

With these new lame Temu Shower Curtain 737s, with no proper cabin dividers, $50 more is truly all Biz cabin is really worth, sad but true. Virgin keep finding corny new ways to nickel and dime, and diminish the flying experience. They 'ran out' of sparkling. In flight experience is often now a joke.

Only difference is Virgin did not make NEAR as much $$$$s as they would have off us in the past decade. Makes no difference to us - we already have Virgin Platinum benefits for another 18 months. We win - Virgin loses.

They have trained chimps in there these days, who simply cannot see the big picture.

 

[MH_fan]

It really is a disappointing state of affairs. I have made far more bookings with QF and OneWorld since the changes than with VA and their International partners. But, hey, they clearly don't care about the money I spend with them.

 

[ozstamps]

And you are clearly not alone. I and many others are in the same boat.

I suspect there is a core of businesses especially, that Virgin will mostly retain .. although that is by no means a given. DSC will appeal to a lot of business flyers who have a reasonable choice of carriers. Often they are locked in pretty tight by Virgin, so are unaffected.

It is the vast number of folks who fly a lot, and pay for those flights on their own dime that they have alienated this year, as the posts above have shown. Those folks have choices. And are making them.

Fully 63% of the 350 members voting here state they will drop in Velocity status due to these loopy changes - only 4% say they will increase status level - a disaster scenario for any company who wants to GROW the business -

Thread 'Will you still earn/retain Velocity status beyond 2025?'

Nov 1, 2024

I'm sure most people reading this are already familiar with the recent changes announced to Virgin Australia's Velocity Frequent Flyer program. In particular, from next year:

• You'll earn status credits for Virgin Australia flights based on the amount you spend,
• You'll earn fewer status credits on partner airlines, and
• To earn or retain any status level, you'll need to earn at least half of the required status credits from VA marketed flights you personally fly (i.e. not from family pooling, partner airlines, etc.)

Put simply, this will make Velocity status harder for...

• AFF Editor
• airline status
• Replies: 666
• Forum: Virgin Australia | Velocity

• 

That is a pretty decent and wide ranging sample size, and for ANY business to be facing that much of a disconnect with a loyal customer base, would make any SAVVY company nervous.

If Woolworths or HCF or McDonalds etc surveyed loyal patrons, and saw a whopping 63% were unhappy with the company new offerings, they'd panic. Indeed if they saw just 20% were unhappy, they'd panic - and react. Business #101 - retain brand loyalty at all costs.

The clear message is there staring them in the face - current Virgin Management are just too stupid to heed it.

 

[trisreed]

I can't seem to see a discussion on it based upon a quick search, but I just discovered this table on the status earn page (the link doesn't quite work, at least directly):



So rather than ~130SC based on spend, it seems that my partner will get 65SC because one of the four sectors was booked by the corporate travel agent on QF. This new system just gets better and better!

 

[oz_mark]

I can't seem to see a discussion on it based upon a quick search, but I just discovered this table on the status earn page (the link doesn't quite work, at least directly):

View attachment 467757

So rather than ~130SC based on spend, it seems that my partner will get 65SC because one of the four sectors was booked by the corporate travel agent on QF. This new system just gets better and better!

It's actually not new. It's been working like that for a while.

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

It is the vast number of folks who fly a lot, and pay for those flights on their own dime that they have alienated this year, as the posts above have shown. Those folks have choices. And are making them.

Indeed. Currently VA plat. As of right now, I have 11 upcoming flights on QF and 2 on VA. A year ago those stats would were reversed.

The changes mean VA status isn't even aspiration for me anymore, so I don't bother. The premium I pay to fly QF (and for many routes I fly, that premium has shrunk) is worth it for the tangible benefits I get maintaining QF status. I won't consider VA unless/until I'm satisfied with my QF status each membership year.

 

[elanshin]

Now that QF has fast forwarded my retention with the loyalty bonus I'll be in the triple SC VA waiting room. (One can hope right?).

Also one other factor that is being overlooked. Whilst QF has most certainly dropped the ball on upgrading their fleet in the last decade to be more competitive internationally the new frames and refurbishment programs are finally starting. We'll start seeing different interiors over the next few years. Whether there's real tangible benefits to a frequent flyer is debatable but it is most certainly strong optics.

Meanwhile VA's new MAX literally had a coughty time and headline.

 

[RooFlyer]

The clear message is there staring them in the face - current Virgin Management are just too stupid to heed it.

And yet you keep flying them. Oh, that's a goodie. Gotta wonder where the stupidity lies.

 

[ozstamps]

Whilst Virgin still are obliged to offer us row #3 seats, free lounge access, extra baggage allowance, and priority boarding etc, for the next 18 months, we'd be crazy not to take it. And as the posts above show, we are certainly not alone.

Booking the cheapest possible LITE fares or using points was never an option for us before. Now we do.

If that is your definition of 'stupidity' - Virgin Management has a job just for you. They are actively seeking folks who cannot think out of the box, have no idea of 'loyalty retention' bog basic principles, or the NEED to retain every single top level Elite, and wear leather blinkers at all times.

 

[mel-world]

With everyone moving over to QF, the fare difference will only increase between the 2 airlines. I find VA perfectly adequate for domestic travel and since I only really need lounge access as a tangible benefit - as I'm never going to get to Platinum, I'll be happy to use my SQ Gold to get into the VA Lounges that might be near empty given all the comments above. When my SQ Gold ends in a few years, I might have to pay more for a QF flight and use my QC Life membership more often.

To each his own.

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

With everyone moving over to QF, the fare difference will only increase between the 2 airlines. I find VA perfectly adequate for domestic travel and since I only really need lounge access as a tangible benefit - as I'm never going to get to Platinum, I'll be happy to use my SQ Gold to get into the VA Lounges that might be near empty given all the comments above. When my SQ Gold ends in a few years, I might have to pay more for a QF flight and use my QC Life membership more often.

To each his own.

It will be interesting to see what if any material difference this has on fares. I certainly can say that I will be choosing Lite over Choice going forward where in the past I always paid more for Choice solely for SCs. That's lost revenue, plain and simple, even when I do choose VA --- which is itself now less likely than it was before. My AMEX Plat gets me into the VA lounges and will continue to do so as long as that benefit exists, so with Plat now out of reach for me I don't care to chase VA status at all.

I won't spite myself to punish VA, and I also find VA to be a perfectly acceptable product for domestic travel, but the point is that the change has tipped the needle away from VA as my go-to. Doesn't seem like a winning strategy but I'm sure the PE Bros know what they're doing.

 

[RooFlyer]

Whilst Virgin still are obliged to offer us row #3 seats, free lounge access, extra baggage allowance, and priority boarding etc, for the next 18 months, we'd be crazy not to take it. And as the posts above show, we are certainly not alone.

Booking the cheapest possible LITE fares or using points was never an option for us before. Now we do.

If that is your definition of 'stupidity' - Virgin Management has a job just for you. They are actively seeking folks who cannot think out of the box, have no idea of 'loyalty retention' bog basic principles, or the NEED to retain every single top level Elite, and wear leather blinkers at all times.

So, it seems VA management can do these dastardly things with no effect on flyer's behaviour. Sounds like they have got it right for the company - reduce elites with no reduction in flying.

Sounds smart to me. Yes, it is my definition of stupidity to keep complaining, again, and again and again (and again, and again)..... about a company while keeping on patronising them AND so demonstrating what the airline has done is good strategy.

no idea of 'loyalty retention' bog basic principles,

You may be right there. As I've said before, I have no loyalty to any airline, as it won't be reciprocated by any. I'll fly anyone that gets me to where I want to go, with the timing I want in the comfort I need and at the price that's acceptable. Loyalty to an airline is a mugs game, and an even bigger mug if they keep complaining about the airline they keep flying!