Query re reward points on Mastercard on Death of holder

[jg271933]

Hello,

My enquiry is actually for my mother, unfortunately and very unexpectedly my father passed away less than a month ago, i am helping mum tidy up some loose ends. Both Mum and Dad are members of the Qantas Frequent Flyer club and have separate accounts, this will be changed shortly.

but my main question is they have significant points on Mastrecard - over 150,000 and mum is keen to move them to QFF but the card is in Dads name.

Just wondering if someone knows the processes available to make a smooth transition.

Many regards ...

 

[harvyk]

but my main question is they have significant points on Mastrecard - over 150,000 and mum is keen to move them to QFF but the card is in Dads name.

First condolences about your dad. Sadly I myself know firsthand the pain of recently losing a family member.

I am not a lawyer (so it's probably a good idea to speak with one in regards to your dad's estate, they can do things to ensure that the tax man doesn't come in and take some), now the disclaimer is out of the way, unless your dad's will has directed the points elsewhere the point should go to your mum as the courts do see FF points as an asset.

The best suggestion I can make is first speak with the issuing bank. They will be able to start the paperwork to have the card transferred into your mums name. Once the card is in her name there shouldn't be a problem transferring the points across.

 

[docjames]

Sorry for your loss.

Can I add to harvyk's post that your mum, if not already a QFF member, should join using Woolworths Everyday Rewards - that way she'll avoid the $75+gst joining fee.

And as harvyk says, it should be easy enough. I'd advise at this stage not to notify Qantas of your father's death, as you may have the option of transferring any points ** (up to 100k) he may have in his QFF account (as opposed to credit card account).

Best of luck with it all.


** Edit: For clarity, this may technically be outside the terms and conditions of the QFF program, but previous instances where family members have posthumously transferred points prior to QF notification of death have not to my knowledge resulted in redaction of the points for the receivees FF acct (whether "allowed" by the T+Cs or not)

 

[oz_mark]

If the points are in the banks own Mastercard reward scheme, one step would be to first find out if transfers to QFF are even possible.

 

[simongr]

Might want to change the thread title in case any QF lurkers are looking for <redacted>...

 

[serfty]

Changed the title.

What bank is the Mastercard with?

 

[markis10]

A lot of rewards programs have cancellation of points clauses in their T&C's with the passing of the individual or bankruptcy etc, if the bank has not cancelled the account/points then a transfer to QFF is in quick order then a family transfer across to your Mum if she knows the password.

If either the bank or Qantas are made aware of the passing of your father then they may cancel the accounts instantly, and they have not shown much goodwill in the past when it comes to getting those points back as assets!

My thoughts are with you on the passing of your father!

 

[NM]

Very few credit card scheme still retain the ability to "transfer" to QFF. Earlier this year, most credit card providers changed their programs to either retain points balance in the credit card program without the ability to transfer to QFF, or change a "direct sweep" program where points automatically move to QAFF on a regular basis.

so if the points are still with the bank's master Card program, its quite likely there is no longer the option to transfer to QFF. The points may have to be used for rewards directly from the bank's master Card rewards program.

Also note that according to the QFF membership terms and conditions, a member's account is terminated upon their death. So regardless of debate about the value or points and whether or not they are seen as an asset, the account will be terminated upon notification to QFF of the death of the member. So keep in mind that any use of the Father's QFF account, including transferring points out of the account via the family transfer function, will technically be against the terms and conditions of the QFF program.

 

[medhead]

So keep in mind that any use of the Father's QFF account, including transferring points out of the account via the family transfer function, will technically be against the terms and conditions of the QFF program.

Not exactly. The T&C say:

8.3 Membership will terminate automatically on the death of a Member. Points earned but not yet redeemed or transferred prior to the death of the Member will be cancelled. Qantas will close the Member's account on notification of the Member's death. Qantas will not be liable for any loss or damage whatsoever suffered by any person as a result of such cancellation.

Yes, the membership finishes upon the death of the member. And the account is closed on notification to qantas - This is a key point; as other have said don't notify qantas until you are ready.

But it is not against the T&C to "use" the points. It simply says that points not redeemed or transferred will be cancelled. So Qantas could cancel points transferred to other accounts after the death of the member, that is a risk.

In practice when my father past away, the Qantas call center people made mum aware of the notification rule and didn't insist on cancelling the account when she first called to make the enquiry. She was able to transfer the points across without any later action by Qantas. I also think that mum was not required to state the date of dad's death when providing the notification. But I might be wrong on this point

jg271933, I am sorry to hear of your loss.

 

[markis10]

Would seem to be a loophole, points "earned" after the death of the member but before notification to Qantas would surely be "unearned" as a worst case scenario, in reality I think QF would show some compassion.

 

[NM]

Yes, the membership finishes upon the death of the member. And the account is closed on notification to qantas - This is a key point; as other have said don't notify qantas until you are ready.

But it is not against the T&C to "use" the points. It simply says that points not redeemed or transferred will be cancelled. So Qantas could cancel points transferred to other accounts after the death of the member, that is a risk.

You quote the T&C that states the member will terminate upon death of the member. As that event has already (sadly for family and friends of the member) occurred, technically the account is terminated, even if not yet notified to Qantas. Using points from someone else's account is not permitted.

6.3 The Card, Membership number and PIN are valid for use only by the Member and are not transferable in any circumstances. If there is a validity period on a Card, the Card may be used only during that validity period.

Just because it may be possible in practice to delay notification of death of the member and use the membership number and PIN to use or transfer points, that does not change the fact that it is technically against the membership terms and conditions.

 

[medhead]

You quote the T&C that states the member will terminate upon death of the member. As that event has already (sadly for family and friends of the member) occurred, technically the account is terminated, even if not yet notified to Qantas. Using points from someone else's account is not permitted.

Just because it may be possible in practice to delay notification of death of the member and use the membership number and PIN to use or transfer points, that does not change the fact that it is technically against the membership terms and conditions.

I try to limit my discussion here, other than to say that transfer of the card, members number or PIN is not required in order for someone to access a members account and transfer points. There are many situations were someone is legally able to deal in the affairs of another as if they were that person. i.e. a third party is treated in law as that person. such circumstances deals with the issues raised by 6.3. Which brings us back to 8.3 and that doesn't prevent transferring the points after death and before notifying Qantas. But there is the issue of cancellation.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Would seem to be a loophole, points "earned" after the death of the member but before notification to Qantas would surely be "unearned" as a worst case scenario, in reality I think QF would show some compassion.

I agree. If someone in the family passes away, there should be a compassion clause, just my opinion.

 

[Warks]

I agree. If someone in the family passes away, there should be a compassion clause, just my opinion.

Yes Amex showed no compassion whatsoever when my father passed away a couple of years ago. He'd had a card since 1974 and racked up a mountain of points. As soon as they were informed they cancelled the lot. Scumbags. Someone shouldn't have told them. My mother could have used them to pay for a few things post the expense of the funeral.

 

[GoldCoastGuy]

I'd even go as far as advising not to tell Qantas at all.

Just transfer the points and let the account lapse in 3 years (it's not as though they ever call you to find out why you aren't flying anymore).

The downside is the occasional junk mail from Qantas addressed to your father which may be uncomfortable to your mother.

 

[aussiedom]

My condolences on your loss. We were in the same position 2 years back when my dad passed away. In his case the points were already in his QFF account, not still in the credit card account.

In any case, while it is definitely against the terms and conditions, I understand family members transferred 100,000 from dad to my mum's QFF account, then the remaining 65,000 points a year later, or after the membership anniversary or whatever date it is that limits family transfers to 100,000 per annum. Not sure if the account ever got closed - guess you could either just let it go on indefinitely with zero points in it or cancel it with no mention of the date of death.

As to getting the points out of the credit card account, that might be tricker if the bank is already aware that you father is deceased. Probably best to get them into his QFF account asap then take it from there.