QF Business Class seats

[AviationNZ]

The thing that gets me about the Skybed's not being flat is this - as serfty says they're at an 8 degree angle.
The cosine of 8 is 0.99027, which means a 2m long bed would take up just under 2cm more when horizontal than when sloped at 8 degrees.

And QF's biggest continuous J cabin is only four rows deep, so that means they needed 79.2mm more space in the Zone B J cabin to make the MkI Skybeds flat. 79mm!!

It's even easier upstairs (two blocks of three rows) and in the Zone C J cabin (two rows).

I know space is at a premium on planes, but surely the marketing value of flat-bed would make it worthwhile?

I'm certainly no mathematician, so I'll trust you on this, and find it bloody amazing why they couldn't see the value of marketing, as you say, and also comfort for pax, for a lousy 8cm!!!

 

[Blackadder]

FirstClass,

I am what most people would refer to as a "wide person" and I sleep like a baby in the SkyBeds.

I find them wide enough and the seats are quite comfortable, MUCH better than ANY whY seat on any airline.

ejb

Likewise on a points upgrade SYD-LAX last year to J, with the Mk II Sky Bed, managed to get around 6 hours sleep despite being somewhat claustrophobic in the shell.
Y+ on the LAX-SYD leg still got more sleep than i could have possibly hoped for if I was travelling in whY.

 

[serfty]

I believe 8° is correct for 744 but apparently it varies by aircraft type, and is 10° for 767 (not sure which variant, or whether they are still in service). ...

No Qantas "Skybeds" have ever been installed into Qantas 767's to my knowledge ...

 

[NM]

The thing that gets me about the Skybed's not being flat is this - as serfty says they're at an 8 degree angle.
The cosine of 8 is 0.99027, which means a 2m long bed would take up just under 2cm more when horizontal than when sloped at 8 degrees.

And QF's biggest continuous J cabin is only four rows deep, so that means they needed 79.2mm more space in the Zone B J cabin to make the MkI Skybeds flat. 79mm!!

It's even easier upstairs (two blocks of three rows) and in the Zone C J cabin (two rows).

I know space is at a premium on planes, but surely the marketing value of flat-bed would make it worthwhile?

You are only looking at half of the picture. Look the other way and sin(8 deg) * 200cm = almost 28cm. That is the height the foot of you skybed is below the head of the row in front. This allows the overlap between the rows to be significantly more than the 2cm you have calculated. In fact, they achieve a 2m long bed in about 1.6m of "pitch" between seats. This overlap means that your feet are underneath the head of the passenger in front.

To install Skybed MKII required an 80 inch pitch, verses a 60 inch pitch for Skybed MKI. So that is a difference of 20 inches or 50cm per row. So over 4 rows or Skybed MKII that is a 2m difference or enough space for 5 Skybed MKI.

 

[estate]

Ah of course - good point NM. Only looking at it from the angle I mentioned would require the feet of the person behind to share the same physical space as the head of the person in front!

Somewhat obvious now I think about it...

I like Delta and Swiss's solution of offsetting every second row - so your feet are under the side table of the person in front. It means you can fit 2m long lie-flat beds in a similar 1.6m-type pitch. Though their disadvantage is fitting only four or five (depending on the row) seats per row in an A333. QF fit six.

 

[straitman]

I made this comment in response to TravelGuru's 'how pathetic' comment to FirstClass's original post. I thought FirstClass made some sound observations (though not all of them IMHO) so for anyone to come back with 'how pathetic' was just unnecessary regardless whether they do/don't align with your personal findings. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if someone is going to come out with that sort of rhetoric than there should be no quarms about my NFI in response to his comment.

Gold Member,

Two things come to mind here.

1. The original comments from FirstClass sounded more like a rant than sound observations (hence the comments from several people) and
2. If you really believe what you were saying why then lower yourself to the same level :?:

 

[ejb_nz]

Estate,

A333's have 5 rows of SkyBed MkI. A332's have 6 rows but spread over Zone A and B.

ejb

 

[estate]

If you're referring to my most recent post ejb, I was actually talking about seats per row on the A333, not rows per cabin.

 

[Gold Member]

I believe he did mean 8° indeed from the horizontal.

And of course not 18° - there are 180° in a straight line, not 190°.

D'oh! Dunno what I was thinking when I wrote that!

 

[Gold Member]

Gold Member,

Two things come to mind here.

1. The original comments from FirstClass sounded more like a rant than sound observations (hence the comments from several people) and
2. If you really believe what you were saying why then lower yourself to the same level :?:

Hi Straitman

Agreed, it did sound like a rant but I agree with some of his observations (though not all). And in fact I wasn't the only person in this thread to support some of his findings, despite others that disagreed.

While it may seem that I came to the defence of FirstClass, this was only in response to a subsequent comment which I believed was unecessary - not a personal attack on that person or their experiences. I don't believe I have 'lowered myself to his level' by standing up for someone's experiences and beliefs which were shot down so crudely. We should be seeking to encourage pariticpation and contribution to this forum.

After all, everyone has their opinions - some choose to do so in a manner which others perceive as 'ego stroking'.

GM

 

[straitman]

After all, everyone has their opinions - some choose to do so in a manner which others perceive as 'ego stroking'.

GM

That would never happen around here :!: :shock: