Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[Mr H]

Just beware that taxes might be lower depending on your point of origin, especially if you're flying ex-HND

Are the taxes/fees genuinely different depending on whether the same sectors are booked individually or booked as part of a OWA? I know (from experience) that Pakistan has a huge tax on premium cabin flights on tickets where the first flight is from Pakistan, but I was not aware of any other examples. For example, the UK departure tax applies for any sector leaving the UK, regardless of whether it is the first or a subsequent sector in an itinerary.

 

[Amanad78]

- "The flights / seats you see online are only for new bookings and can't be used for existing bookings"
- "There are no reward seats showing for the day you have requested" (even despite me looking at them online in the multi city booking at the time of calling)

I'm going through this right now with a single QF1 flight SYD - LHR, trying to add a business reward flight from BNE to SYD. Trying to add it to the same PNR so I dont have to pay extra points, just some extra tax but no go so far. Very frustrating

 

[MelbFlyer]

Just beware that taxes might be lower depending on your point of origin, especially if you're flying ex-HND

The JP airlines are charging a lot ex JP.

Yep, I found this out when searching for one way awards (ie. a few separate bookings compared to point to point).

Flying out of Japan, the tax is significantly more than if you combine it as a 2nd leg etc, with the first flight originating from Australia - Almost akin to EK's ridiculous taxes they charge!

ie.
- A 2 leg PNR originating from Australia (Australia > Japan and then Japan > Australia) - Taxes are very reasonable
compared to;
- Booking 2 separate PNRs (one from Australia, the other from Japan) - Taxes is double compared to above, even with the current strong AUD against the Yen, it's still double

A shame really, because I wanted to specifically avoid the below (when calling to attempt to make a change after seeing whats available online, but phone consultants aren't able to see it).

I'm going through this right now with a single QF1 flight SYD - LHR, trying to add a business reward flight from BNE to SYD. Trying to add it to the same PNR so I dont have to pay extra points, just some extra tax but no go so far. Very frustrating

It is indeed, I've experienced this probably (literally) a hundred times - you search for seats and they're showing online, but when calling, the phone agents can't see / can't change even despite the seats showing online.

I guess in summary - If you're not Gold or Platinum (and / or don't get lucky when calling 13 12 11), you're going to have a hard time amending any reward bookings (OWA or otherwise), even despite reward seats showing online.

 

[djkelly69]

SYD - LHR, trying to add a business reward flight from BNE to SYD.

This is a slightly different issue (or perhaps a sub-class of the same issue) - QF for a while have deliberately blocked people adding domestic sectors to major airports (eg. Syd, Bris, Melb, Perth) onto an international reward flight from or into another major airport. It is a form of inventory protection I believe, basically to try and stop people snapping up award seats from their non-home airport.

As usual, I think Hobart can work around it, but OS centres can't. Unfortunately they often don't seem to know about the rule/issue that is causing the problem, so can't articulate it to the caller.

If you're not Gold or Platinum

Just noting Gold do not have access to the priority line, that is only Platinum+.

 

[flapper]

This is a slightly different issue (or perhaps a sub-class of the same issue) - QF for a while have deliberately blocked people adding domestic sectors to major airports (eg. Syd, Bris, Melb, Perth) onto an international reward flight from or into another major airport. It is a form of inventory protection I believe, basically to try and stop people snapping up award seats from their non-home airport.

As usual, I think Hobart can work around it, but OS centres can't. Unfortunately they often don't seem to know about the rule/issue that is causing the problem, so can't articulate it to the caller.


Just noting Gold do not have access to the priority line, that is only Platinum+.

It is possible to add a domestic leg. I believe it's just the OS call centres believe you can't, at least that's what they have told me but when I recently had contact with the AKL call centre and asked they said you can and added the flight for me. You can also do it when you book online.

 

[icecream]

Am I doing something wrong? Called 3 agents so far and all say that you cannot add flights to an existing booking. That they can only create a new booking and then 'link' to the current one (which I know from reading here is wrong)

 

[elanshin]

Am I doing something wrong? Called 3 agents so far and all say that you cannot add flights to an existing booking. That they can only create a new booking and then 'link' to the current one (which I know from reading here is wrong)

They're doing it wrong.

 

[MelbFlyer]

Am I doing something wrong? Called 3 agents so far and all say that you cannot add flights to an existing booking. That they can only create a new booking and then 'link' to the current one (which I know from reading here is wrong)

Definitely wrong. HUACA until you get someone who can see the reward seats you're looking at.

It may take a while, but don't stop calling until you get someone.

Try 13 12 11 if not already too.

 

[elanshin]

Just want to double check itinerary again. Hobart called me back and said their system claims it's invalid (470k+ points instead).

CGK > HKG (ticketed). 0810 -1420 (transit 20h) CX
HKG > TPE (add). +1, 1020 - 1220 (Stop 1) CX
TPE > HKG (add). 1055 - 1255 (Transit 4.5h) CX
HKG > PVG (ticketed). 1725 - 2015 (Stop 2) CX
PVG > SYD (ticketed). 1950 - +1, 0825 (Transit 9.5h) QF
SYD > MEL (add). 1800 - 1935 (Stop 3) QF
MEL > SYD (ticketed). 1100 - 1225 (transit 3.5h) QF
SYD > DFW (ticketed). 1540 - 1600 (transit 21.5h). QF
DFW> IAD (ticketed). +1, 1425 -1830 (Stop 4, surface). AA
BUF > ORD (add). 0650 - 0740 (Transit 12.5h) AA
ORD > SEA (add). 2015 - 2245 (Transit 10h) AA
SEA > LAX (add). 0900 - 1157 (transit 10.5h) AA - operated by skywest for American Eagle.
LAX > SYD (ticketed) 2230 - +2, 0635. (END) QF

GCM says 33641 miles including last leg to CGK.

With only the ticketed flights it was a valid booking, but hobart is now saying the additional makes it invalid.

 

[icecream]

I know I got extremely lucky. Next I spoke to an agent in Fiji. He was able to find J reward seats for the 4 flights I wanted to add. He advised ticketing would take 24 hours but I knew that I had to ask to stay on hold while ticketing occurs (or it might not issue). He said it would take about an hour and didn't mind me waiting on hold. He knew about airlines cancelling tickets when they weren't issued quickly enough. The agent put it through to ticketing and after some time the itinerary came up in my account booking but no tickets yet. He said it was ready and emailed but because I couldn't see it yet he manually sent it again. Still waited some time (approx 10 mins) and then it appeared. He didn't hang up on me. All up the call was 50 minutes. Now to wait for seats to come home...

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

Just want to double check itinerary again. Hobart called me back and said their system claims it's invalid (470k+ points instead).

CGK > HKG (ticketed). 0810 -1420 (transit 20h) CX
HKG > TPE (add). +1, 1020 - 1220 (Stop 1) CX
TPE > HKG (add). 1055 - 1255 (Transit 4.5h) CX
HKG > PVG (ticketed). 1725 - 2015 (Stop 2) CX
PVG > SYD (ticketed). 1950 - +1, 0825 (Transit 9.5h) QF
SYD > MEL (add). 1800 - 1935 (Stop 3) QF
MEL > SYD (ticketed). 1100 - 1225 (transit 3.5h) QF
SYD > DFW (ticketed). 1540 - 1600 (transit 21.5h). QF
DFW> IAD (ticketed). +1, 1425 -1830 (Stop 4, surface). AA
BUF > ORD (add). 0650 - 0740 (Transit 12.5h) AA
ORD > SEA (add). 2015 - 2245 (Transit 10h) AA
SEA > LAX (add). 0900 - 1157 (transit 10.5h) AA - operated by skywest for American Eagle.
LAX > SYD (ticketed) 2230 - +2, 0635. (END) QF

GCM says 33641 miles including last leg to CGK.

With only the ticketed flights it was a valid booking, but hobart is now saying the additional makes it invalid.

Could it be the SEA-LAX sector operated by SkyWest?
I can see that American Eagle qualifies as an Affiliate Airline, but maybe it's too much of a stretch once SkyWest is introduced into the mix.
I'm not saying this IS a problem, just that it MIGHT BE...

 

[djkelly69]

Could it be the SEA-LAX sector operated by SkyWest?
I can see that American Eagle qualifies as an Affiliate Airline, but maybe it's too much of a stretch once SkyWest is introduced into the mix.
I'm not saying this IS a problem, just that it MIGHT BE...

Yeah I was thinking either that flight, or the system is not liking the 3 Sydney visits for some reason - maybe it thinks the last one is a third transit of SYD rather than the finish point due to needing to include theoretical flight/distance back to CGK?

Should be able to do some dummy bookings in the system to see if it will cap an OWA when including a SkyWest/American Eagle AA flight in the mix.

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

maybe it thinks the last one is a third transit of SYD rather than the finish point due to needing to include theoretical flight/distance back to CGK

Yes, that could be it.
As you say: try running a test for each scenario.

 

[elanshin]

Cheers ill find some dummies. Personally i suspect these 2 to be the culprit as well.

 

[elanshin]

I wouldn’t have thought so. You aren’t transiting (or stopping) as your journey is now over.

The end point and the start point are relevant for the 35,000 mile rule as the distance back to the start city is part of the calculation. As you are obviously not travelling beyond the finish point, I can’t see it as being a transit (or a stop).

The end point, even if it is different to the start point, is neither a transit nor a stop.

Yeah I was thinking either that flight, or the system is not liking the 3 Sydney visits for some reason - maybe it thinks the last one is a third transit of SYD rather than the finish point due to needing to include theoretical flight/distance back to CGK?

Should be able to do some dummy bookings in the system to see if it will cap an OWA when including a SkyWest/American Eagle AA flight in the mix.

Yes, that could be it.
As you say: try running a test for each scenario.

SYD - MEL leg is definitely a culprit. I did a dummy 132k Y test using roughly similar distances. without SYD -MEL valid fare. With SYD to MEL - invalid.

This would lead me to conclude that the final leg ending in SYD is counted as a transit stop to CGK (that you're not taking).

 

[elanshin]

AA flight number Operated by SkyWest Airlines for American Eagle is not a problem.

 

[djkelly69]

Could maybe try dropping the MEL-SYD in the middle (and doing that as a surface sector on a separate reward or cash flight) and see if the system likes it then? From memory only the arrival point of a surface sector is the one which the system cares about.

The SYD-DFW leaves pretty late in the afternoon so if you go for an early departure from MEL it wouldn't be too risky and there should be a lot of other MEL-SYD options if your flight happens to get cancelled or delayed.

Not ideal because it will cost you an extra cash or points plus taxes, but unfortunately there may not be much else you can do besides arguing the toss with a machine.

 

[elanshin]

Could maybe try dropping the MEL-SYD in the middle (and doing that as a surface sector on a separate reward or cash flight) and see if the system likes it then? From memory only the arrival point of a surface sector is the one which the system cares about.

The SYD-DFW leaves pretty late in the afternoon so if you go for an early departure from MEL it wouldn't be too risky and there should be a lot of other MEL-SYD options if your flight happens to get cancelled or delayed.

Not ideal because it will cost you an extra cash or points plus taxes, but unfortunately there may not be much else you can do besides arguing the toss with a machine.

Not sure if the system will like that more than dropping the SYD > MEL. The MEL > SYD is a married segment for MEL > DFW. (otherwise I would have given a lot more time at the SYD F lounge). I was basically stretched to keep the original booking valid and under 6 flights.

But yes the problem is almost certainly now the computer thinking theres 3 transfers at SYD. Tested dummy. Doing PVG > SYD > MEL then SYD > DFW works. PVG > SYD, MEL > SYD > DFW both are valid.

 

[DC3]

Called 3 agents so far and all say that you cannot add flights to an existing booking. That they can only create a new booking and then 'link' to the current one (which I know from reading here is wrong)

They are telling big fibs

 

[Mr H]

Yeah I was thinking either that flight, or the system is not liking the 3 Sydney visits for some reason - maybe it thinks the last one is a third transit of SYD rather than the finish point due to needing to include theoretical flight/distance back to CGK?

Should be able to do some dummy bookings in the system to see if it will cap an OWA when including a SkyWest/American Eagle AA flight in the mix.

I don't think that's it, but if it is then it could be neutered by adding in a final sector SYD-xx_ a few days after your arrival in SYD, thereby making it a stop and not a transit. If you have enough of a gap, you can then cancel that dummy sector once you get to SYD and get a refund of the taxes.