Seven hurt when Qantas flight hurts turbulence

[NM]

Why, oh why didn't the "air pocket" show up on the weather radar?!?

"There was lightning everywhere ... obviously we were right in the middle of a storm or thunder but it was pretty severe.

Mr Whitehead said passengers were told the radar was not functioning "so the plane didn't see (the air pocket) and went straight into it".

Hmm, I don't know too many pilots that would fly into and through a severe storm without a functioning weather radar. Surely if there was so much lightning all around the pilots would have some idea they were flying through a storm even without a functioning weather radar!

Me thinks quote may include some misunderstanding of what was actually announced, which I expect would be something along the lines of fact the a weather radar cannot see turbulence. A weather radar displays moisture as the radar ping transmissions reflect back off the water droplets. Clear air turbulence is called that because the air is clear and hence no water droplets to reflect the radar pings and hence nothing to display on the screen.

For a pilot to knowingly fly into an area of severe lightning without a working weather radar would be very unusual and I suggest foolhardy. I really cannot believe that to be true unless I see it published in the ATSB report.

"I can't remember whether it went down or up first," she said. "It was alright if you had a seatbelt.

Fancy an airline not providing seatbelts for all the passengers . Pretty much bad luck for those that did not have a seatbelt for the flight.

 

[oz_mark]

I would consider the fact that the HKG-PER flight is an overnight flight, the event occured at 2.30a.m, and several hours into the flight. I would have though the bulk of the passengers at that point were likely sleeping and the event woke them up. Ones perceptions may be affected a bit if woken up in such a situation.

 

[Slats7]

One passenger described the brief but terrifying plunge as “like falling out of a 30-storey building”.

Has this passenger fallen off a 30 storey building before?

 

[tuapekastar]

Re: QANTAS A330 Turbulence

.
Guess you just have to keep asking, why the he*l passengers can't put a bloody seat belt on and LEAVE IT ON!!!!

I've been in 3 similar incidents and whilst being a little worried once, I have been amazed at the looks on passengers faces when they are on the ceiling of the aircraft and looking down at their seats!

The only people I have sympathy for in the severe turbulence area are flight crew who have to move around to sort out passengers.

I saw one FA in Tassie a very long time ago break an arm and a shoulder in very bad turbulence between Launceston and Hobart. Several passengers were injured and we were met by a number of ambulances at hobart airport. I ended up wearing my meal, but that was all.

I know it sounds callous, but what does it take for people to learn that seat belts save lives!!!!!

i will now get off my soapbox.

You must have a very resilient bladder!

My seat belt is on at all times whilst seated but I do find myself having to visit the can every now and again.

I understand and fully agree with the point you are trying to make (there are some real dumbos about), but don't assume everyone injured/affected in this instance simply chose not to belt up when seated.

 

[laffer]

Some of the posts on here have complained about the 'QF bashers' but likewise some of the QF fanboi groupies need to calm down. People were injured here and that is never acceptable.

If they were not wearing seatbelts then obviously they share a portion of the blame. But the fact remains that whilst encouraged to keep your seat belt on at all times it is not mandatory.

Australia is a small country with a small aviation industry. QF is the national champion. When an incident happens with QF it gets picked up. Simple.

 

[munitalP]

Hmmmm - me thinks a couple of us should go into business making new seatbelts for QF - Im thinking Gold Coast roller coaster style.... you in Simon?


Joking aside, there is a serious matter - old "hello again" at the beginning of every flight TELLS every PAX to wear the seatbelt while seated.

Don't wear it - Bad luck, however, the downside to that is there's bound to be some chup who gets injured becaused of the famous aussie "Drop Passenger" who lands on him while he's safely belted in....

I have never experienced real bad turb while standing or walking so I cant comment, however, the couple of times spent in the back galley on a 330 having a drink with the CSS - I tend to be wedged into the door or at least have hold of something (and not just my drink either!) just in case.:shock:

I would also wonder what the nationality of the injured PAX was - I often see blatent disregard of the rules when traveling in and out of Asia - I think it is mainly through language barriers...

Mr!

:shock:

 

[simongr]

But the fact remains that whilst encouraged to keep your seat belt on at all times it is not mandatory.

Actually it is a QF requirement:

Per the website:

All Qantas operated flights are non-smoking and you are required to keep your seat belt fastened whilst seated, even after the 'fasten seat belt' sign has been switched off.

 

[Evan]

<..>
I would also wonder what the nationality of the injured PAX was - I often see blatent disregard of the rules when traveling in and out of Asia - I think it is mainly through language barriers...

Mr!

:shock:

I think it is not language, its just there attitude most of the time.

 

[kpc]

Actually it is a QF requirement:

Per the website:

All Qantas operated flights are non-smoking and you are required to keep your seat belt fastened whilst seated, even after the 'fasten seat belt' sign has been switched off.

Sq also constantly remind passengers of this requirement.
Slightly related, I was walking back from the toilet on a Lan flight somewhere over the southern Pacific, and we hit really bad turbulence, and I actually fell despite holding onto the seats....it was quite scary, and fortunately I did not hurt myself. I'm a firm believer in wearing my seat belt at all times when seated, esp when sleeping! :idea:

 

[Commuter]

Maybe QF should start sending repair bills to pax that damage things through being flung around through their own fault (i.e. not keeping the seat belt fastened while seated and not in the process of standing up/sitting down).

That'll soon put people off ignoring the 'requirement to keep the seat belt fastened', won't it?

I think the government should just regulate it, and make it an offence (fines of $300 etc) like not wearing a seat belt in the car but the fines go to cabin crew, fellow passengers and the ATSB, not to CASA or the government.

I'd go as far to sue the passenger next to me if that person does not wear a seat belt and consequently injures me when he/she gets falls onto me in turbulence/event etc, because not wearing a seat belt while seated when required to do so is idiotic.

 

[oz_mark]

Some info from Qantas - apparently the plane went upwards

About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases

"The aircraft most likely encountered what is known as convective turbulence, which led to it rapidly gaining around 800 feet in altitude before returning to its cruising altitude of 38,000 feet.

"This convective turbulence is not normally visible to weather radar. At top of descent into Perth, the Captain explained this to passengers and also referred to the radar being designed to detect moisture but not ice crystals.

"The flight crew responded quickly to this incident in line with procedure and based on their regular simulator training.

"Some media reports have suggested the aircraft was travelling through thunderstorms at the time of the incident. There may have been thunderstorms in the vicinity, but there is nothing to suggest the aircraft was actually flying through any storm activity."

 

[harvyk]

"Some media reports have suggested the aircraft was travelling through thunderstorms at the time of the incident. There may have been thunderstorms in the vicinity, but there is nothing to suggest the aircraft was actually flying through any storm activity."

You've gotta love this, the media simply making stuff up rather than waiting for the facts...

 

[2muchplastic]

You've gotta love this, the media simply making stuff up rather than waiting for the facts...

Sure, why let facts get in the way of a good Qantas bashing story?

 

[dajop]

The original post in this thread quotes a media report stating six passengers and one crew member. Its quite possible that six passengers were going to, using, or returning from the lavatory at the time.

Poignant comment in light of subsequent posts.

Here we have several AFF's contributors jumping to conclusions and having a rant about people not wearing seatbelts - which is fine - but are we in full possession of the facts?

Whilst it is requirement to remain seated whilst the fasten seatbelt sign is on and to have the seatbelt fastened when seated, it is not a requirement to stay seated when the seatbelt sign is off.

There may well have be some of the injured travellers seated without seatbelts fastened (although perhaps injury less likely if seatedin the case of upwards turbulence? Not sure). However as NM points out it is quite possible that the passengers were going to our returning from the lavatory when the turbulence hit. Or just standing up to stretch.

Not saying this is the case here, but I've been on many aircraft that have been flying smoothly and suddenly hit some clear air turbulence, and seatbelt sign only illuminated (promptly) once hitting it.

 

[Slats7]

Australia's Airbus A330 incidents | The Australian

The Australian has gone all out by making a list of incidents involving Australia's fleet of A330 Airbus aircraft.

 

[straitman]

Why, oh why didn't the "air pocket" show up on the weather radar?!?

NYCguy,

Unfortunately a few will take your comments seriously so I will reiterate. post #21 by NM and post #31 by oz_mark are correct.

Weather radar does not pick up CAT. It will pick up the thunderstorms but is almost totally ineffective in identifying the associated turbulence.

Having said that I would go so far as to suggest that IF the a/c was flying in an area of storms, as reported, then I would expect the seat belt light to be illuminated.

 

[mannej]

Australia's Airbus A330 incidents | The Australian

The Australian has gone all out by making a list of incidents involving Australia's fleet of A330 Airbus aircraft.

The Australian is just as bad as nonews. This article is riddled with inaccuracies regarding these incidents. Flight 72 occured on the 7th of October, and not the 8th as stated. I should know it happened on my birthday! Jetstar operate A330-200 and not the -300 as stated. The list probably goes on

I am sure the QF B767 or B747 fleet have been involved in just as many incidents, yet it is the A330's time in the sun.

Just a pity that people will believe what poor journalists want them to believe.

 

[Mal]

The Australian is just as bad as nonews.

The Australian is part of the NoNews Network!

Actually, as I've posted previously a lot of NoNews articles that are negative towards Qantas or are factually inaccurate are actually just reprints of AAP (Australian Associated Press) articles that they've chosen to repost warts and all.

I agree that Airbus now has it's time in the press. All part of our news networks being dummed down and turned into sleazy newspapers.

 

[dajop]

All part of our news networks being dummed down and turned into sleazy newspapers.

Don't you mean ".... and turned into even sleazier newspapers>"

And love the relevance of this one ...

Jan-June 2006 - A wasp infestation among Qantas aircraft, particularly A330s, at Brisbane Airport, causes three flights to be aborted during takeoff as well as a number of flight cancellations.

That's done it I'm never going to fly an A330 again.

 

[Slats7]

Qantas jet in the dark on turbulence risk | The Australian

THE inability of radar on a Perth-bound Qantas Airbus to detect ice crystals will be at the centre of an air safety investigation into severe turbulence that threw passengers out of their seats, injuring up to 12 people.