RTW in J Class - Advice Needed

[Durin's Bane]

G’Day guys,

My girlfriend and I were planning a trip around the world at the end of the year, a combination of holiday and visiting some of my relatives. I was seeking some advice on choice of airline, plane and cabin fit out, ticket purchasing, and general advice overall. Excuse the long post, but I appreciate any feedback or suggestions.

We’ve utilised the ‘Oneworld Itinerary Planner’ to plan the following trip over five weeks beginning 21st December 2009:

01. 21/12/09 – Perth to Dubai VIA Hong Kong (CX170 + CX685)
02. 24/12/09 – Dubai to Zurich VIA London (BA108 + BA718)
03. 28/12/09 – Zurich to Madrid (IB3475)
04. 31/12/09 – Madrid to Dublin (IB3184)
05. 03/01/10 – Dublin to Chicago (AA93)
06. 06/01/10 – Chicago to Boston (AA1718)
07. 08/01/10 – Boston to New York (AA4627)
08. 14/01/10 – New York to Houston VIA Dallas (AA709 + AA5115)
09. 16/01/10 – Houston to San Francisco VIA Dallas (AA5182 + AA1445)
10. 19/01/10 – San Francisco to Tokyo (JL1)
11. 23/01/10 – Tokyo to Perth (QF80)

Our intention is to redeem my points for one Business Class ticket (280K according to Qantas Premium Travel consultant) and split the costs of the second ticket (~$10K, so ~$5K each). As I’m Platinum and she’s Partner Gold, we’ll purchase the second ticket in my name to maximise points earning capacity.

I’ve used ‘Great Circle Mapper’ for approximate mileages for each of the flights above and used the status credits table from the Qantas website to calculate SC earning, with the following results (aircraft [cabin class], mileage [SC]):

01. A330-300 [D], 3733 [120] + B747-400 [D], 3684 [120]
02. B777 [D], 3421 [100] + A319 [D], 491 [40]
03. A319 [D], 771 [60]
04. A320 [D], 902 [60]
05. B767-300 [D], 3673 [120]
06. MD-80 [A], 867 [60]
07. RJ140 [Y], 187 [40]
08. MD-80 [A], 1389 [80] + ATR72 [Y], 247 [40]
09. ATR72 [Y], 247 [40] + MD-80 [A], 1464 [80]
10. B777-300 [D], 5124 [140]
11. B767-300 [D], 4919 [140]

Apart from the obvious comfort of Business Class, I guess we’re hopeful that the amount of points I earn on the above trip, plus the points we both earn flying domestically and off credit cards, will provide enough points to do a similar trip next year i.e. purchase one and redeem one RTW ticket in F or J. The above run in Business provides 31,119 points (without considering Business cabin and Platinum status bonuses) and 1240 Status Credits. I believe if I purchase the $10K ticket with my AMEX Ultimate card through the Qantas travel consultant I’ll get 2.5 points per dollar and earn 25K points as well!


My questions were:

1. Is it worth paying the extra in dollars and points for First Class? I think RTW First Class is $14K, and points required are 420K. If we were to travel F I’ve discovered some IB flights are only Y and J, so would I get F level status credits and points, or only J? Plus the SC earn would increase by 50% *over* business which is significant, and cabin bonus is 50% instead of 25% too.

2. I know for example AA within the US has numerous flights with F and Y only, though the booking tool shows we’ll be upgraded automatically to F on those flights. Is this the case? On all my US trips I’ve only ever booked in Y and paid at check in for upgrade to F when I’ve felt like it. What have fellow frequent flyer’s found on US segments when booking RTW J on their travels?

3. How many of you have booked your tickets ex Seoul or Johannesburg to get the cheaper RTW fares? Or used an AA booking agent? Our schedule is tight and we didn’t want to spend hours travelling in Y to Johannesburg or Seoul on cheap fares just to start our trip, however a significant price saving may just change our mind. Also, what figure could I assume for airport taxes and the like?

4. Did you guys have any other suggestions or improvements on the above itinerary? Are there any routes, aircraft or airlines in J that have been below par? I’ve travelled J previously on QF, BA, CX and KA – all have been above average to very good.

Thanks in advance,

DB.

 

[Hawkeye]

I'll make a couple of quick comments on what I can.

1. The cost:benefit ratio of F v J is really only one you can answer. Remember that real F is only going to be available on intercontinental routes, and intra-continental flights will be in J-style cabins. In general, CX, QF, AA, & BA (can't comment on JL) long-haul J are of such good quality that the difference is diluted compared to previous. Availability in A fare bucket is also "generally" greater than D. Do note that A availalibilty in JL used to be heavily restricted (often released only very close to date). Others will have more up-to-date info.

My opinion: the difference IS worth it, so I stump up for AONEx's.

2. Yes, if booking a DONEx, US 2 class flights book into the A fare bucket if using the AA flight number, and earn first class SC's. Note that the QF codeshares book into D, and earn business-class status credits, despite bokking into the same seats.

A further point: you have a few extra flights you could do within Australia, although limited to one more stopover. So, you could tack a PER-MEL-ADL-PER etc on to the end, and get a free business class trip up your sleeve for later.

 

[mos]

Hi DB,
My girlfriend and I recently managed a RTW on QFF points (oneworld award) in J (except the final Tokyo-Perth segment for me in Y...) for 280k each, but it was limited to a total of 5 stopovers (greater than 24 hours between arriving and departing was considered a stopover) so you might run in to some problems there. We could only book in J for internal US flights that had a 3-class service (had to book in Y on 2-class service), which I think AA only operate on the major transcontinental routes. The QF service from Tokyo to Perth is on an old 767, so if you have any alternative routes for getting home then I'd think about it (unless they upgrade the service before then).

Cheers,
Mike

 

[Durin's Bane]

I'll make a couple of quick comments on what I can.

1. The cost:benefit ratio of F v J is really only one you can answer. Remember that real F is only going to be available on intercontinental routes, and intra-continental flights will be in J-style cabins. In general, CX, QF, AA, & BA (can't comment on JL) long-haul J are of such good quality that the difference is diluted compared to previous. Availability in A fare bucket is also "generally" greater than D. Do note that A availalibilty in JL used to be heavily restricted (often released only very close to date). Others will have more up-to-date info.

My opinion: the difference IS worth it, so I stump up for AONEx's.

2. Yes, if booking a DONEx, US 2 class flights book into the A fare bucket if using the AA flight number, and earn first class SC's. Note that the QF codeshares book into D, and earn business-class status credits, despite bokking into the same seats.

A further point: you have a few extra flights you could do within Australia, although limited to one more stopover. So, you could tack a PER-MEL-ADL-PER etc on to the end, and get a free business class trip up your sleeve for later.

Thanks for your recommendations Hawkeye. When I discuss with the Qantas phone consultant I'll see what the avilaibility is in both F and J for the dates specified.

With regards to the Australian domestic flights however, I've used 16 destination allowances already and the planner won't allow any more. If I could get the domestic legs in J for later use that would be very handy.

Hi DB,
My girlfriend and I recently managed a RTW on QFF points (oneworld award) in J (except the final Tokyo-Perth segment for me in Y...) for 280k each, but it was limited to a total of 5 stopovers (greater than 24 hours between arriving and departing was considered a stopover) so you might run in to some problems there. We could only book in J for internal US flights that had a 3-class service (had to book in Y on 2-class service), which I think AA only operate on the major transcontinental routes. The QF service from Tokyo to Perth is on an old 767, so if you have any alternative routes for getting home then I'd think about it (unless they upgrade the service before then).

Cheers,
Mike

Thanks for the tips Mike, I'll call Qantas Premium Travel and see what they say. If it is indeed as you say, then we'll have to have a major rethink!!

 

[Hawkeye]

With regards to the Australian domestic flights however, I've used 16 destination allowances already and the planner won't allow any more. If I could get the domestic legs in J for later use that would be very handy.

Yes, sorry, I should have counted the sectors. Have you considered making you own way between Dallas and Houston i.e. separate itinerary or non-air travel, which would free up 2 segments? I can only count 15 segments used at the moment (but maths was never my strong point) - you would then have the segments to do an Australian trip at the end. QF transcontinental J is a very nice option.

 

[Durin's Bane]

Yes, sorry, I should have counted the sectors. Have you considered making you own way between Dallas and Houston i.e. separate itinerary or non-air travel, which would free up 2 segments? I can only count 15 segments used at the moment (but maths was never my strong point) - you would then have the segments to do an Australian trip at the end. QF transcontinental J is a very nice option.

I've discovered it's 16 because I am flying in to JFK and leaving via LGA. So I can easily change that to be both LGA. I might now consider NRT-SYD-PER - problem is there doesn't seem to be any redeemable J or F on the NRT to SYD flights on QF around those dates!! I'll check JL...

 

[Mwenenzi]

Use MM to test your xONEx intineray. Not 100% perfect but close.

If you start & finish in Asia it becomes a DONE3. (but limited to 2 stop overs) Purchasing 2 x DONE3 may better than trying to get a DONE4 and a RTW award. Cost of PER to Asia flights is not a lot

 

[simongr]

A few observations:

- Dont forget when booking 1 award and 1 paid that there might be some times when the seats are not allocated together. You can have a note made in the booking toi link the itins but there is no guarantee.

- I think that QFF J RTW awards book into whY when there is no J on board (i.e. domestic US) so you will be in different cabins for those segments.

- You earn points/bonuses/SCs for the class of service you fly in rather than the one you pay for - so if you go the F route and fly a J only segment you will get J SCs (conversely though you get F SCs where you pay for J and fly in F - US domestic)

 

[Durin's Bane]

Use MM to test your xONEx intineray. Not 100% perfect but close.

If you start & finish in Asia it becomes a DONE3. (but limited to 2 stop overs) Purchasing 2 x DONE3 may better than trying to get a DONE4 and a RTW award. Cost of PER to Asia flights is not a lot

Thanks Mwenenzi - the Oneworld website doesn't show any pricing for DONE3 for Australian tickets however, only DONE4, DONE5 and DONE6? It does show it for many other countries (e.g. USA, UK, South Korea, Japan etc). Would this mean I'd need to purchase through an overseas ticketing office?

Thanks for the tips simongr.

 

[serfty]

You cannot have an xONE3 for any routing that travels via Africa/SWP(Oz)/SthAmerica, or specifically, has travel a routing via a Southern Hemisphere Continent.

 

[NM]

Thanks Mwenenzi - the Oneworld website doesn't show any pricing for DONE3 for Australian tickets however, only DONE4, DONE5 and DONE6? It does show it for many other countries (e.g. USA, UK, South Korea, Japan etc). Would this mean I'd need to purchase through an overseas ticketing office?

There is no valid routing for a 3-continent OneWorld explorer from any country in the southern hemisphere. Even if you do no stopover in Asia, you MUST travel through Asia so the minimum routing from any Southern Hemisphere country of origin is going to involve 4 continents.

 

[Bundy Bear]

The biggest problem is going to be the 5 stop overs when using the 280,000 oneworld Explorer.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Thanks Mwenenzi - the Oneworld website doesn't show any pricing for DONE3 for Australian tickets however, only DONE4, DONE5 and DONE6? It does show it for many other countries (e.g. USA, UK, South Korea, Japan etc). Would this mean I'd need to purchase through an overseas ticketing office?

Yes. Ticket in Asia as DONE3 of Asia-Eu-North America and back to Asia. Find you own way to / from Asia (which is close to Perth). Your intineray only had Per-Asia return so just buy that or get an award flight.

 

[Durin's Bane]

Thanks for all the tips everyone.

I discussed for an hour with the Qantas Premium Travel consultant, who was very helpful (and grateful for me having done some background research beforehand ). She recommended flying into the USA and purchasing an AA airpass for all intra US flights, thought the weak Australian dollar makes an airpass quite expensive. Good thing is all flights still have redeemable J (and F in the US) seats remaining.

DONE3 out of South Korea is about $5.5K at the moment. Perhaps two of those may be the way to go as suggested by some of you. On that front, how many of you have had success booking through an overseas ticketing office? Are there any pitfalls of which I should be aware?

 

[serfty]

If you get to the USA; I suggest looking into Y/KUP type fares; First Class SC's for about what you'd pay for flexible economy in Oz.

E.g LAX-SFO can be purchased so for USD230 and will earn 60 SC's; comapre this with a USD86 discount WHY fare which MAY earn 10SC's.

 

[wandering_fred]

The OW Visit NA pass fares are normally more expensive than what you can find on aa.com. There are exceptions especially on some of the Eagle routes where the base fare is absurd. Though some of the mile earning alternatives are interesting. The direct BNA-DCA Eagle was probably double the price of routing on MD80s via MIA. I used a Visit NA ticket (with an earlier coupon elsewhere as 2 are the minimum) as I didn't have the time on that day to visit MIA.

I have flown SIN-PER-SIN quite a bit over the last couple/four years - though only once to partake in a DONEx. You might find that point to point biz fares on CX can be quite reasonable if you are willing to (re)locate to the correct starting point. CMB in my case. There have also been some interesting fares in BA WT+ if you continue on TATL to the USA or Canada.
Replacing the 6 NA coupons from a xONEx with purchased tickets (no matter the source) does normally swing the economic balance awat from point to point. All depends on where you need to visit.

YMMV

Fred

 

[Durin's Bane]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

Our plan is now as follows:

- Omitted Madrid and Dublin from itinerary, but will stay in Zurich for extra six days and see neighbouring destinations by train (my girlfriend has travelled this way through Europe before)
- Will redeem points to get 2x Y airpasses on American Airlines (56K points each)
- Purchase one J Class RTW DONE4 for 5 destinations ($10,500 inc taxes)
- Redeem points for another J Class RTW for the same 5 destinations (280K)

It'll cost more with points and in dollars, but I realised I have a Qantas $1000 voucher I need to use within the next month, and I can only use it on Qantas tickets - so I'll use it here.

BTW investigated using point to point fares, in J on OW airlines - ticket ended up costing over $30K!

 

[NM]

- Purchase one J Class RTW DONE4 for 5 destinations ($10,500 inc taxes)
- Redeem points for another J Class RTW for the same 5 destinations (280K)

Do note that the person with the paid DONE4 will travel in First Class (A) on 2-class AA domestic flights, while the person using the OneWorld Award using QF FF points will be travelling in coach class (X) on the same 2-class AA domestic flights. The rules for QF's OneWorld Award state that AA 2-class domestic flights will be in economy, while the DONE4 fare rules states that travel is in First for the same flights.

 

[Durin's Bane]

Do note that the person with the paid DONE4 will travel in First Class (A) on 2-class AA domestic flights, while the person using the OneWorld Award using QF FF points will be travelling in coach class (X) on the same 2-class AA domestic flights. The rules for QF's OneWorld Award state that AA 2-class domestic flights will be in economy, while the DONE4 fare rules states that travel is in First for the same flights.

Thanks NM, understood, but our intention is that the intra USA flight will be both redeemed tickets.