Grey skies for Qantas

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for example, for full service pax, how will you model the price differential which the customer is willing to pay to give up earning pts and SCs to travel to another full service airline on the same route ? (given better service / newer planes /perhaps better price from the other airline) ?

for potential LCC customers how will you model the price differential which the customer willing to pay to get QF service and pts and SCs ?.

Perhaps Joyce and cohorts don't even question such niceties, given that they are happy to sit back and let pax who have paid for QF brand endure LCC service and forego SCs and pts on JQ metal.

No models and stats have any importance if you treat your customers with such disregard.

But providing you have some other model that tells you how amazingly smart you are to juggle a few fare levels around to sell a couple of seats, why worry about those pax who you have lost for good, but happen not to have the stats to trouble you. Such a model may be optimised through any number of iterations, but is ultimately dependent on choice of variables, basic model assumptions, starting conditions, etc.
 
I don't really disagree with the fundamental points that you raise,platy in relation to the way Qantas has been managed over the last few years,and the way it needs to be managed in the future to ensure that Australia has a flag carrier that is respected on the world stage.
It's just that I still believe in the Australian principle of giving a bloke a fair go and it seems to me that (Again I hope I am not putting words in your mouth) you have already decided that in your opinion Alan Joyce is not the man for the job and you think that others could do better.
whilst I,on the other hand am willing to give him a few years before I would be willing to draw that conclusion.I personally don't think he can anywhere near as bad as Dixon,(Just my opinion)
But you are entitled to your opinion,just as I am to mine.
Thanks for the debate.:)
 
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The chance of people sleeping in after a big footy match, the chance of an executive cancelling a fully flex ticket etc etc.


Factoring in a statistic based on past loadings is one thing, but incorporating behavioural or socio economic data is another - are you suggesting, for example, that QF are tracking various parameters about individual pax to build up travel profiles which link to behaviours, jobs, socio-economic status, etc?
 
I don't really disagree with the fundamental points that you raise,platy in relation to the way Qantas has been managed over the last few years,and the way it needs to be managed in the future to ensure that Australia has a flag carrier that is respected on the world stage.
It's just that I still believe in the Australian principle of giving a bloke a fair go and it seems to me that (Again I hope I am not putting words in your mouth) you have already decided that in your opinion Alan Joyce is not the man for the job and you think that others could do better.
whilst I,on the other hand am willing to give him a few years before I would be willing to draw that conclusion.
But you are entitled to your opinion,just as I am to mine.
Thanks for the debate.:)

Absolutely correct! ;)

Actually, I would be delighted to be proved wrong and purchase you a ale at such time!!! :D
 
... chances of people employing "throw away ticketing" ...

... chances of an AFFer blowing off an MR ... ;)

I've been watching a flight I have on Sunday; it's been well sold out in WHY for weeks. (J9 B0) Of course YM see any seat as saleable, but for what price.

For the last few weeks, on the Monday it's gone B9... X9 ... within a day or so its back to J9 B0

This week it's been daily as by now Qantas are prepared to sell any of the remaining J seats for what they can get (even X!) overbooking WHY of course.

Seats are starting to run low as this morning all WHY buckets only went to 5; earlier this afternoon WHY back to 0.

As I post this, it's K3 M3 L1 V1 S1 N1 Q1 O1 X1 E0

From experince, if any grab that seat in either L/V/S/N/Q/O/X seat, all of those buckets will drop to 0.

(By tomorrow, I'm sure it'll all be snapped up again.)

That's YM!

Yes, indeed! It would be interesting to find out quite what they do include in their modeling process. Apart from anything else, if they have indeed nailed how to quantify individual behavioural factors in this context, that would be of great interest...
 
Absolutely correct! ;)

Actually, I would be delighted to be proved wrong and purchase you a ale at such time!!! :D
And I would be more than delighted to purchase you several ales at such a time.LOL.:mrgreen:
 
Factoring in a statistic based on past loadings is one thing, but incorporating behavioural or socio economic data is another - are you suggesting, for example, that QF are tracking various parameters about individual pax to build up travel profiles which link to behaviours, jobs, socio-economic status, etc?

Actually I would be surprised if they didn't use very sophisticated statistical modelling.
I used to work for a large finance company involved in approving applications for high limit credit cards and they had developed an enormous database of the details of high net worth individuals who may be interested in being considered for a card,the statistical data the company had was amazing and it was used to great effect to attract new business,and I would think an airline like Qantas would be very likely to have developed models that could be used to predict the numbers of no shows on any particular day,or any other amount of data that could be used to predict traffic.but as platy has said all the data in the world is effectively useless if you alienate your customer base by,for example,putting them on JQ metal if they book to fly on QF metal.
 
Factoring in a statistic based on past loadings is one thing, but incorporating behavioural or socio economic data is another - are you suggesting, for example, that QF are tracking various parameters about individual pax to build up travel profiles which link to behaviours, jobs, socio-economic status, etc?

Nope, not really. I'm more suggesting that they have ideas of the number of full-flex tickets that get changed on certain days and an awareness of certain events that influence people's behaviour. Again mainly modelled on previous load experiences - not individual pax profiles.
 
,all I did is make a comment that he has a double maths degree from Trinity
Point of order, my friend, it is allegedly (no idolisation here) a double degreee in Physics and Maths. Mathematics may contribute to physics, but physics is a lot more than just mathematics. So say us physicists. :)


/aside - canary yellow! that's Aussie green and gold, my friend.
 
Point of order, my friend, it is allegedly (no idolisation here) a double degreee in Physics and Maths. Mathematics may contribute to physics, but physics is a lot more than just mathematics. So say us physicists. :)


/aside - canary yellow! that's Aussie green and gold, my friend.
Point taken.:) .
 
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Surely for FF's they could profile based on the individuals no show history etc, and for non-FF's use statistical averages. I would be very surprised if Qantas did not analyse individual travel patterns for forecasting when it comes to frequent flyers.
 
Point of order, my friend, it is allegedly (no idolisation here) a double degreee in Physics and Maths. Mathematics may contribute to physics, but physics is a lot more than just mathematics. So say us physicists. :)


/aside - canary yellow! that's Aussie green and gold, my friend.

Just as biology is so much more than maths....;)

..although it is hard to do either physics or biology well without the maths...

...or, apparently, "management science" (add chorus of groans from at least from one pure scientist here) and "yield management" - hopefully they don't try to call it yield management science...yet...:-|
 
Just as biology is so much more than maths....;)

..although it is hard to do either physics or biology well without the maths...

...or, apparently, "management science" (add chorus of groans from at least from one pure scientist here) and "yield management" - hopefully they don't try to call it yield management science...yet...:-|

Sounds like the only "yield management" you're interested in platy is the yield out of a bottle of ale.:pLOL.
 
Surely for FF's they could profile based on the individuals no show history etc, and for non-FF's use statistical averages. I would be very surprised if Qantas did not analyse individual travel patterns for forecasting when it comes to frequent flyers.

Perhaps. Although you would hit at a theoretical problem. You would need a sufficiently large sample size (large number of flights per individual) to be able to estimate your required parameters (rate of no shows, etc) at a practically useful level of confidence to take that approach. Thus would only work well for very frequent FFs.

The alternative is to model based on a population of individuals (your pax and would be pax) adopting two or more possible strategies (eg. buy flexible whatever the cost, buy cheapest and rebuy if necessary, etc, etc).

Your system features a population with certain % of population adopting each given strategy. You run a model based on optimising revenue (yield) and run in silico (on computer) experiments to determine the best intervention of combination of parameters, which you can control (fare levels, number of seats, etc).

Now the smarts of the model increases when you can incorporate dynamic positive or negative feedback between variables (this is where I question how smart this yield management game really is). For example, offering a sale fare not only resets a fare level parameter, but has a knock on effect on the difference between lowest restricted fare and fully flexible and thus perceived value - this in turn might shift the proportion of population adopting each fare buying strategy. In other words your parameters are inter-dependent and your system dynamic. You have moved from a relatively simple "supply and demand" model to a "dynamic" model.

The validity of your model now depends on how well you capture the inter-relationships between model elements, particularly the human element of how perceptions shift given changes in context (price change, economy, etc), not just how well you estimate the probability of events (no shows, etc).

Just to make it more fun your basic model will probably have just one optimal solution allowing you to adjust your yield parameters (seat price/availability) under the assumption that you are aiming at one stable optimal solution. On the other hand, the dynamic system model may tend towards more than one stable state, each of varying value to you in terms of yield. Encouraging a system to go in the direction you want it to go (more yield in this case) is a fine art and one with which we struggle in a number of obvious pratical examples (including the economy, climate and genetic engineering!!!).

Can I add yield management to this list - do folk feel that QF has got its maths deployed at the cutting edge???

One final thought. When estimating parameters QF for their models have a lot of data - loadings on all flights broken down by fare type, when ticket purchased, some travel profile info, etc. Plus their market research. BUT most (if not all?) is based on existing customers. If they really weant to increase their yield, they must also increase their market share in terms of individuals' airline preferences - however, the always or mainly DJ folk may or may not be effectively represented by their QF customer based data...
 
Sounds like the only "yield management" you're interested in platy is the yield out of a bottle of ale.:pLOL.

I dunno, mate, whereas you might be right (in that I have endured a couple of weeks of abstinence in the interests of tackling the christmas belly and) the thought of a cold ale is quite attractive at this moment (!), it would be a lot easier to walk down to the local beach front bar and produce a $5 to down an icy stubby of Boags than engage in a jolly joust on the FF Forum with a long termpay off of a few ales!!! ;)
 
Sounds like the only "yield management" you're interested in platy is the yield out of a bottle of ale.:pLOL.

Based on your last post I was very clearly wrong!:):mrgreen:
 
Based on your last post I was very clearly wrong!:):mrgreen:

No, you were absolutely right!!! Bring on the BEER!!!

And yes, I did factor in beer/wine consumption when calculating getting optimal yield from my FF award first class flights CNS-SYD-LHR concluding that the Chateau Beycheville 1996 Bordeaux (this was on BA) at $250/bottle maximised my investment. I nearly failed to attain the optimal solution by over indulging in the SYD F lounge on the Yering Station Pinot Noir...good thing my bioinformatics Professor never found out...
 
...or, apparently, "management science" (add chorus of groans from at least from one pure scientist here) and "yield management" - hopefully they don't try to call it yield management science...yet...:-|
although my experience has been that its the mathematicians who turn to the dark side of yield management or financial prediction. Whereas physicists and biologists stick to the science, or perhaps turn back to bricklaying - as one particularly brillant physicist, who I know, did.
 
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