Drive-By Pick-Up Penalty at Sydney International

[kiwikroozer]

Has anyone else had this (or a similar) experience?
Any advice??

On Jan 11th, my wife was to pick up a friend who was flying into Sydney International Airport Terminal from NZ.
At the prearranged time, she drove through the DEPARTURE DROP-OFF area (to avoid the bottleneck at the pick-up level below). She stopped for no more than 30 seconds to pick up her friend and load the luggage into the car. She did not leave her vehicle at any point, and no-one spoke to her. They then continued on their way out of the airport.

Today, completely out of the blue, we have received an infringement notice from the Airport Authority in the mail, demanding she pay a fine of $132.00 - for stopping in an area where they claim there are 'NO STOPPING' signs on display.

Okay - from memory, I don't think there ARE any actual NO STOPPING signs in place along Departure Drive, are there? There is a signed time limit for dropping off, but she was totally within that time limit, only being there for half a minute.
The only technicality was that she was picking up rather than dropping off...

Has anyone else recieved such a fine?
Is it legal, in view of the lack of signage the letter states does exist there?
Does the airport authority have the power to enforce such a fine?
...Should we fight it???!!!

I'd love to hear from others who have had similar experiences, and to learn how you dealt with it.
;-)>
Kiwikroozer

 

[brett-au]

Hmm. From memory I don't think there is any way you can pick up passengers arriving at Sydney's International terminal for free. I believe you are automatically directed to the boom gates at the entrance to the parking station.

 

[ked999]

This is the greed of Macquarie Airports at work.
As you enter the airport there are signs saying No pickup permitted. Even taxi drivers who pick up at other than the taxi rank get an infringement. The patrollers even have digital cameras to snap the breach when they aren't able to issue the ticket on the spot.

I also wonder about the legality, and how enforceable it is if just ignored.

 

[Happy Dude]

Nasty one kiwikroozer. And a really good example of the petty money-grubbing that goes on at airports. I hazard a guess that they have the power to issue enforceable fines (this should be disclosed somewhere on the fine), even if they aren't anywhere near commensurate with the offence. I don't know how they could argue that $132 is "reasonable" (wrt recouping their loses, etc) in the case you describe.

I once had a "discussion" with a parking naz_ at MEL who informed me that he had the power to issue a fine, and would excercise it, for doing just what you describe. It's even more ridiculous at MEL where you can walk 50m from the end of the jetstar terminal and be a long way from anyone, and they still want to sting you. Like I say...petty.

WRT fighting it, as a starting point, I'd be asking for proof of the offence, and the part of the "law" that says you've committed an offence, and evidence that there's adequate signage to indicate/warn of your offence (this may have been dealt with by Ked999).

Good luck.

 

[garyjohn951]

At the prearranged time, she drove through the DEPARTURE DROP-OFF area (to avoid the bottleneck at the pick-up level below).

I must differ from the posts already made and say if everyone did this avoid the pickup bottleneck, there would be a departure bottleneck.

Rules are rules and are there for ALL.

Easiest way to avoid a fine is not to do it.

 

[Skoogle]

There is a signed time limit for dropping off, but she was totally within that time limit, only being there for half a minute.

I believe TT or ACA did a thing on this. I believe the answer was that as there is no reference to drop-off only zone in the road law, so they get people for 'No Stopping'.

Get a pic of the sign and read up on the road laws. Not the little book from the RTA, but the real laws.

If the sign is not 'No Stopping' then fight it.

 

[NM]

If the sign is not 'No Stopping' then fight it.

If the sign says "No Stopping" then it would apply equally to people dropping off and picking up - neither action would be permitted.

 

[Mal]

On a similar note - never speed in an airport area. In Australia, I've seen speed camera vans at the Brisbane Airport, and Federal Police doing radar duties in Adelaide Airport...

Plenty of enforcement over in America too.

 

[dajop]

I once had a "discussion" with a parking naz_ at MEL who informed me that he had the power to issue a fine, and would excercise it, for doing just what you describe. It's even more ridiculous at MEL where you can walk 50m from the end of the jetstar terminal and be a long way from anyone, and they still want to sting you. Like I say...petty.

Last time I looked there are specific zones with 1 minute parking time limits at MEL (departures level) although arrivals level zones have gone now. So the OP would have been OK at MEL within one of those zones (on departures level). If wanting to avoid such fines there are options at MEL such as near the TT terminal or late at nights the parking naz_'s don't patrol in front of QF or DJ terminals once last departure has gone. Or you can just park for 20 minutes for $3 to save all the fuss. (you can get up to 35 minutes as long as you pay after 20 minutes), which is what the owners want you to do.

Also there is a speed/red light camera at MEL at the intersection and I have seen feds with radars on the departures ramp, which IMHO is actually fair enough, I have seen a good dose of idiots driving too fast up the ramp oblivious of what is round the corner.

 

[serfty]

MEL actually has two "official" pick up areas - enough space for about 4 cars at each end of the inner semi-circut - quite a long walk from the terminals themselves. These have three minute time limits.

If I'm being picked up, the people wait at the Gladstone park shopping centre and I call them after the plane has landed. If it's raining they drive through the hire car area under the Hilton. Otherwise they pick me up at the predtrian lights.

In SYD Domestic, I get picked up occasionally near the AaE shed about 100 meters down from T3.

 

[garyjohn951]

MEL actually has two "official" pick up areas - enough space for about 4 cars at each end of the inner semi-circut - quite a long walk from the terminals themselves. These have three minute time limits.

If I'm being picked up, the people wait at the Gladstone park shopping centre and I call them after the plane has landed. If it's raining they drive through the hire car area under the Hilton. Otherwise they pick me up at the predtrian lights.

I do the same, ring when I have luggage and my wife is parked out on Melrose drive. She pulls up in the 3 min section of arrivals pickup and I'm waiting and off we go. Holds up no-one.

Unfortuantely it can be a problem when people just park there and gum up the works.

 

[kiwikroozer]

I must differ from the posts already made and say if everyone did this avoid the pickup bottleneck, there would be a departure bottleneck.

Rules are rules and are there for ALL.

Easiest way to avoid a fine is not to do it.

There was no bottleneck, garyjohn, and there were no signs to say she couldn't STOP. And $132 for a 30-seconder?? Please...

 

[Alanslegal]

Gosh I have a feverish dislike for intra-airport/council/shopping centre carpark ''infringement'' wanna-be coppers. Yes these clowns - and I refer to them as clowns because they are such a joke - is they have the authority to issue infringement notices in certain areas eg such as the roadways within the airport terminal.

(IIRC) the signs that are posted prior to the departures level indicate ''no pick up allowed'' and that in front of the terminal doors itself are "no stopping, except setting down passengers 2minutes, drivers to remain with car'' so if what I recall is correct, then its unlikely to get any sway to your situation.

Its very lousy that SYD airport for example does not have reasonable amounts of 'pick up' stops and because of that forces you to use the carparks and be whipped with a $7 entry fee! C'mon MacAirport - give us 15 minutes free parking dammit! :evil: OR use SIN's parking charges of 3cents per minute, charged by the minute!

 

[kiwikroozer]

If the sign says "No Stopping" then it would apply equally to people dropping off and picking up - neither action would be permitted.

Thanks, NM...Good point!
Ergo, there can't be any stop signs.
I'm going to drive down there on my motorbike, with camera, and check it out properly. (There's free parking in the carpark for bikes. Go figure)
;-)>
KK

 

[garyjohn951]

There was no bottleneck, garyjohn, and there were no signs to say she couldn't STOP. And $132 for a 30-seconder?? Please...

I think you have forgotten ''no pick up allowed'' sign on that level. It is there for a reason.

I agree $132.00 is a high fine, however we wouldn't be having this thread if the driver hadn't dis-obeyed the road sign would we.............

 

[kiwikroozer]

Nasty one kiwikroozer. And a really good example of the petty money-grubbing that goes on at airports. I hazard a guess that they have the power to issue enforceable fines (this should be disclosed somewhere on the fine), even if they aren't anywhere near commensurate with the offence. I don't know how they could argue that $132 is "reasonable" (wrt recouping their loses, etc) in the case you describe.

I once had a "discussion" with a parking naz_ at MEL who informed me that he had the power to issue a fine, and would excercise it, for doing just what you describe. It's even more ridiculous at MEL where you can walk 50m from the end of the jetstar terminal and be a long way from anyone, and they still want to sting you. Like I say...petty.

WRT fighting it, as a starting point, I'd be asking for proof of the offence, and the part of the "law" that says you've committed an offence, and evidence that there's adequate signage to indicate/warn of your offence (this may have been dealt with by Ked999).

Good luck.

Thanks a lot for your helpful input, Happy Dude and Ked999 (as well as everyone else).
Much appreciated, and some good points raised. I shall be acting on the matter soon, so please do continue to 'watch this space'!
;-)>
KK

 

[NM]

Thanks, NM...Good point!
Ergo, there can't be any stop signs.
I'm going to drive down there on my motorbike, with camera, and check it out properly. (There's free parking in the carpark for bikes. Go figure)
;-)>
KK

I expect, as garyjohn has pointed out, that the signage includes clarification beyond just the "No Stopping". It would seem that Sydney Airport is one place where being an exception to the rule may save some time but may also hit the bank balance.

 

[kiwikroozer]

Gosh I have a feverish dislike for intra-airport/council/shopping centre carpark ''infringement'' wanna-be coppers. Yes these clowns - and I refer to them as clowns because they are such a joke - is they have the authority to issue infringement notices in certain areas eg such as the roadways within the airport terminal.

(IIRC) the signs that are posted prior to the departures level indicate ''no pick up allowed'' and that in front of the terminal doors itself are "no stopping, except setting down passengers 2minutes, drivers to remain with car'' so if what I recall is correct, then its unlikely to get any sway to your situation.

I think most of us share your contempt for the ott tactics of the uniformed fasciettes, Alanslegal!

Sadly, in light of your info re. the signage, it would appear I don't have even half a leg(al) to stand on...but I shall still go and check for myself.

It brings to mind the gung-ho attitudes of some council rangers, who go out of their way to issue infringement notices to responsible dog owners who let their well-behaved pooches have a run at the park away from the madding crowd and take care to pick up after them, but ignore the pitbull/staffy street wanderers who are roaming the neighbourhood and terrorising folk, because there's no owner in sight to posture in front of.

It's all about the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter of same, IMHO.
Maybe it's just a universal uniform thing!
;-)>
KK

 

[kiwikroozer]

I think you have forgotten ''no pick up allowed'' sign on that level. It is there for a reason.

I agree $132.00 is a high fine, however we wouldn't be having this thread if the driver hadn't dis-obeyed the road sign would we.............

I wasn't aware of said sign, - until I read Alanslegal's post after my first response, since acknowledged and taken on board.

I've been patronised by experts, Garyjohn.

And it's past my bed-time.
I'll be back.
G'night, Sirrah.
;-)>
KK

 

[Dave Noble]

It brings to mind the gung-ho attitudes of some council rangers, who go out of their way to issue infringement notices to responsible dog owners who let their well-behaved pooches have a run at the park away from the madding crowd and take care to pick up after them, but ignore the pitbull/staffy street wanderers who are roaming the neighbourhood and terrorising folk, because there's no owner in sight to posture in front of.

I don't see a similarity. The airport specifically prohibits picking up passengers from the departures level and provides a pick up area at arrivals. There seems to be a deliberate flouting of the rules and now complaining that got hit with the penalty. The departures area would be a nightmare for dropping passengers off if everyone decided that they were above the rules

I see this as more akin to a driver getting caught speeding and then trying to suggest that the speeding rules shouldnt apply to them and so the fine should be vacated

Dave