2019 Federal Election Discussion

[Isochronous]

I doubt that an LNP/UAP/One Nation coalition will be knocking on the door of Mensa.

The LNP has at least 2 Rhodes Scholars / Oxbridge graduates in its ranks. Don't see any in the Greens and Labor don't seem to have any either (otherwise the media would be falling over themselves about some brilliant Labor genius)

I remain surprised that so many folks seem to be about to vote themselves into a range of tax increases.

That is because a far too large proportion of the population are tax eaters not taxpayers.

 

[moa999]

I remain surprised that so many folks seem to be about to vote themselves into a range of tax increases.

Ah. But Bill says they aren't tax increases, just removing a gift, or reversing future changes...
(Cough cough).

On the dividend imputation, I do in some way agree with the principle of not giving a refund where someone has a marginal tax rate of 0%

Very hypothetical example:
Consider Company ABC which made 100 million dollars, paid 30 million dollars in tax and decided to distribute all 70 million in dividends.

Now let's say they have 10,000 shareholders. All retirees who own their own house and this is their only source of income.

They all declare $7000 of income, and then claim back the $3000 franking credits as a cash refund totaling $30 million (plus no doubt a whole heap of other government benefits)

Thus net result is the government has collected Zero tax from a company that made $100 million.

It's not removal of double taxation for these people, it's removal of taxation for the company entirely.

 

[Pushka]

Ah. But Bill says they aren't tax increases, just removing a gift, or reversing future changes...
(Cough cough).

On the dividend imputation, I do in some way agree with the principle of not giving a refund where someone has a marginal tax rate of 0%

Very hypothetical example:
Consider Company ABC which made 100 million dollars, paid 30 million dollars in tax and decided to distribute all 70 million in dividends.

Now let's say they have 10,000 shareholders. All retirees who own their own house and this is their only source of income.

They all declare $7000 of income, and then claim back the $3000 franking credits as a cash refund totaling $30 million (plus no doubt a whole heap of other government benefits)

Thus net result is the government has collected Zero tax from a company that made $100 million.

It's not removal of double taxation for these people, it's removal of taxation for the company entirely.

I wonder if the unintended consequence of doing away with IC pushes more people into qualifying for Centrelink. Zero income.

 

[love_the_life]

But sadly for us this is where Shortens policy will get us more than any other policy out there. So as an individual that pretty much determines my vote. I also don’t think higher taxes equates to better services either. Look at the money we put to education and our standards we achieve - our spend is one of the highest out there but the outcomes are some of the weakest. It’s not just about money spent but actually targeting the right issue.

Agree but my comment was really only a philosophical one and not even linked to this election - that if increase of tax was spent at improving services would people accept it. My view is that some people would. The SMSF issue and tax rebate is a different philosophical question.

 

[love_the_life]

I wonder if the unintended consequence of doing away with IC pushes more people into qualifying for Centrelink. Zero income.

I don’t think so, though some may qualify for a part pension. People don’t have zero income, they have zero or low taxable incomes. For Centrelink all sources of income are assessed not just taxable.

 

[Pushka]

Agree but my comment was really only a philosophical one and not even linked to this election - that if increase of tax was spent at improving services would people accept it. My view is that some people would. The SMSF issue and tax rebate is a different philosophical question.

But it needs to be considered because with an increase in spend the money has to come from somewhere. I just don’t see the quality of the relationship between increased spend and improved service in reality. A good philosophy but it doesn’t seem to translate in practice. Money gets spent in areas that don’t achieve the desired result

 

[Isochronous]

But it needs to be considered because with an increase in spend the money has to come from somewhere. I just don’t see the quality of the relationship between increased spend and improved service in reality. A good philosophy but it doesn’t seem to translate in practice. Money gets spent in areas that don’t achieve the desired result

There are in truth very few areas where the government can produce a service at a better quality than the private sector.

 

[OATEK]

That may or may not be, but even if true, there some people who feel that income should be spread more fairly and are willing to pay more to allow this. If it was a choice of more income tax and better public health services (as just an example) or individual tax cuts and no improvement in services, I know what I would choose. YMMV.

I absolutely agree that more can be done to make life fairer, but like all such things where do we draw the line. There is finite funding, we are no longer competitive internationally in so many areas, and with the determination of the left to close out coal, reduce farm herds (to reduce methane) and the like we may all finish up much poorer rather than the poorer getting a fairer deal.

 

[love_the_life]

There are in truth very few areas where the government can produce a service at a better quality than the private sector.

Some would disagree with your assertion but not going there.

 

[love_the_life]

I absolutely agree that more can be done to make life fairer, but like all such things where do we draw the line. There is finite funding, we are no longer competitive internationally in so many areas, and with the determination of the left to close out coal, reduce farm herds (to reduce methane) and the like we may all finish up much poorer rather than the poorer getting a fairer deal.

Agree as I was only making a philosophical statement. I would take issue with some of your arguments though but that's what a democratic system is all about. I tend to keep my political views to myself.

 

[cove]

Australia does need to have a world competitive set of tax rates for companies and individuals or alternatively we could let our currency drop to make us competitive.

 

[drron]

So the Greens are going to legislate tougher action on hate speech.They of course will have enough to do just looking at their organisation.
.

Inciting actual violence.

 

[cove]

The person who tried to attack the PM with an egg needs to go into a lock up for a stint.

 

[CaptJCool]

Not yet made up my mind





There’s parts on both sides I quite like

 

[cove]

When I see governments in action I have concluded that smaller is better. I would like to see an east coast water supply solution where water is piped from North Queensland rivers to drought affected areas in Queensland and New South Wales. Then I think about how the NBN was a fiasco I think don’t bother.

 

[JessicaTam]

n

no, alp = unions

You got that idiot mcmanus, the one who wears all that makeup, calling for death taxes. All that will do is see lots of money go to some tax haven, which no govt can stop. There are dozens of ways.

So now you are having a go at someone for wearing makeup?

And please tell me when she called for death taxes?

A Photoshopped tweet claiming the union movement supported 'death taxes' has been slammed as a "dangerous attack on democracy".
A screenshot of a tweet, purportedly written by Australian Council of Trade Unions secretary Sally McManus, circulated on Twitter over the weekend. In the screenshot, timestamped as having been written on Sunday, McManus appears to say that the ACTU "proudly supports" an inheritance tax.

But McManus quickly pointed out that she had never written such a message, as well as calling out several other inaccuracies pointing toward it being a faked tweet.

 

[CaptJCool]

So now you are having a go at someone for wearing makeup?

And please tell me when she called for death taxes?

About the same time the Libs called to privatise Medicare. That’s a scandal 3 years in the making. Granted the claims administration was being lined upto be privatised but it’s a long bow to think that meant the system of determining specified Medicare items ON THE MBS and the Health dept was going to be outsourced

Re death taxes, Please note there’s already these

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[cove]

Clearly our State Governments are now running very tight with their infrastructure works costing more and the GST pie and stamp duty both shrinking.
Because WA has been dealt with badly I really doubt that the GST rate could get increased until WA gets about 90% of the state’s collections.rather than 70%.
An uplift of the GST rate needs all States to agree so I think we may be safe on this tax going up.
Victoria and Queensland have both been spending big and a crunch is looming for them.

 

[ozfflyer]

Clearly our State Governments are now running very tight with their infrastructure works costing more and the GST pie and stamp duty both shrinking.
Because WA has been dealt with badly I really doubt that the GST rate could get increased until WA gets about 90% of the state’s collections.rather than 70%.
An uplift of the GST rate needs all States to agree so I think we may be safe on this tax going up.
Victoria and Queensland have both been spending big and a crunch is looming for them.

& at same time the cash economy is booming & it's almost impossible for the ATO/govt to measure as a lot of cash never ever gets banked.

 

[Pushka]

I think some people here need to take a deep breath and think about what they posting here and the relevance of it. And that applies to both “sides” of the political spectrum.