Freedom of speech

[tgh]

so … If a celebrity only say stuff that other folks want you to say and do not say what you believe to be true ?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

so … If a celebrity only say stuff that other folks want you to say and do not say what you believe to be true ?

That is not what anyone has suggested.

 

[rock86]

Is a personal statement of belief a public inflammatory comment ?

Ask the 15 year old Polynesian kid struggling with his sexuality and idolises Folau, but who has come out and told him because he is gay that he is immoral and needs to repent his sins - words can do serious damage to vulnerable groups of people.

Or the gay teenager and their parents who have paid good money to attend a rugby match, purchased merchandise plus memberships, paid their registrations to participate in rugby and also purchased a subscription to Foxtel so they can watch - they are part of the reason Folau can earn $1 million a year yet he is telling them &/or their son/daughter that they are immoral and living in sin.

That is not what anyone has suggested.

Exactly, nobody is saying Folau cannot practice or voice his faith, he certainly can. He can tell the world on twitter about his almighty lord and sprout that his saviour is best thing for peoples minds and souls.

But what he cannot do is belittle and denigrate certain groups of the public under his playing contract, as his employer has significant income that is contributed from both sponsors and participants alike (and who allow him to earn the amount he does) who do not support groups of the public being denigrated and told they are immoral.

 

[JohnK]

It can be, yes. A celebrity saying all gay people are bad and will end up in hell can have serious physical and mental health impacts.

The message is simple, use your celebrity platform responsibly. There was no need to include homosexuals on the list.

Its a sin to drink champagne and champagne drinkers are going to Hell.

It saddens me if this statement offends anyone.

P.S. I ignore what any celebrity has to say as they don't have a single clue about life.

 

[rock86]

P.S. I ignore what any celebrity has to say as they don't have a single clue about life.

That's great John, I'd expect that is a similar view of most poster on AFF including myself. But we're not really talking about us that these statements have an effect on are we.

The teenagers & kids who worship some of these sports stars because of their ability are different, they do listen to celebrities. And guess what, the reason that the sports stars are celebrities and get paid so well is a lot to do about the admiration of kids.

Within those kids are also a proportion who are gay and some of are questioning their sexuality and in a bad mental state, then you have a sports star who kids admire come out and tell them they are immoral and are sinners and must repent their 'gayness', what are these poor kids thinking now that their idol thinks they are immoral?

But yeah, word of celebrities have no effect....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Its a sin to drink champagne and champagne drinkers are going to Hell.

It saddens me if this statement offends anyone.

Really? You see drinking champagne exactly the same as youth suicide because they're gay?

 

[Buzzard]

Really? You see drinking champagne exactly the same as youth suicide because they're gay?

In the 1970's I was told drinking alcohol was a sin and we all know where sinners go. Champagne is alcoholic so....
It wouldn't surprise me if some faiths still think that about alcohol.
I don't believe in such a place as hell so I'll happily enjoy a drink or three.

 

[Blinky]

You don't have to make something up, you can quote an ex-league player and boxer - fits your bill perfectly. With the exception that no one threaten to take his livelihood away or censor his thoughts, views, writing, speech. In fact the more outrageous the statement - the more the media lapped it up, and more the money flowed.

He covered everything from 9/11, white people, Christians, gays, anthem, flag, you name it..... all with full throttle endorsement from the media and sports bodies.

What's the difference between the two - only one of them has approached the subject from a Christian point of view.

Okay I’m a bit behind.

Anthony Mundine did not have a contract prohibiting him from hate speech. Israel has.

I know others have mentioned it, but it bears repeating. Folau can believe in anything he wants. He can believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (as I, a fervent atheist, do), Scientology, politics, you name it. He can’t engage in public hate speech under his contract. Tear up your contract Israel, and comment like crazy. The rugby authorities want touch you. Racial and religious vilification laws might though.

 

[tgh]

Please define public hate speech…..

 

[JohnK]

Really? You see drinking champagne exactly the same as youth suicide because they're gay?

No. That post was meant tongue in cheek. You shouldn't believe you're going to hell just because someone says you will.

And even more so if you don't believe in hell in the first place.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No. That post was meant tongue in cheek. You shouldn't believe you're going to hell just because someone says you will.

And even more so if you don't believe in hell in the first place.

Fine for an appropriately enabled adult.

For young children and vulnerable teens, they're not necessarily able to make the distincions you are.

 

[marki]

And? Meat production is apparently the second biggest generator of green house gasses. User pays. If you want to eat meat, pay for the clean up to the environment the rest of us have to endure.

If Greenhouse gas is CO2 then CO2 is plant food.

 

[drron]

It has been mentioned that some Pacific Islander Rugby players are religious.I think it is much more than some.I remember watching the Rugby League World Cup matches in Australia in 2013.There were definite signs that most Pacific Islanders are religious.
A couple of examples.first post match Fiji v Samoa.

Next before the semi final Fiji v Australia.

And googling to find these videos I found them in this article which presents the Christian view of the problem with Israel Folau.I feel it is worth reading

Wanting ‘hymns’ without ‘him’ is a ‘secular’ myth of ‘inclusion’ that will eat itself (and it’s just a bit racist) – St. Eutychus

st-eutychus.com

 

[tgh]

Big like for your post DrRon…...

 

[Isochronous]

Polynesian culture is overwhelmingly Christian. It also needs to be respected lest you be an intolerant bigot who doesn't support diversity.

 

[JohnK]

Fine for an appropriately enabled adult.

For young children and vulnerable teens, they're not necessarily able to make the distincions you are.

I'm not sure I agree.

You're expecting people to dumb down everything they say just in case they offend someone. I don't think telling someone they are going to hell is offensive.

Personally, I think we need to identify weakness early and train them to get through life without worrying what others are saying.

P.S. It's a tough world out there.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not sure I agree.

You're expecting people to dumb down everything they say just in case they offend someone. I don't think telling someone they are going to hell is offensive.

Personally, I think we need to identify weakness early and train them to get through life without worrying what others are saying.

P.S. It's a tough world out there.

You’re specifically saying that youth suicide is a ‘weakness’ and can be solved with a bit of ‘training’?

This is not about comments that ‘offend’. These are statements that can have serious mental health impliacations. Most people recognise this, but there are a few that either aren’t able to, or deliberately do so.

 

[serfty]

You’re specifically saying that youth suicide is a ‘weakness’ and can be solved with a bit of ‘training’?

I doubt that.

I work with several people such as @JohnK to whom Greek is their first language. I often need to interpret their vocalisation to understand what can be lost in translation.

Reading that I'm pretty sure @JohnK really meant 'difference'.

This is the important part.

get through life without worrying what others are saying

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This is the important part.

Again... perhaps something an enabled adult can do. Children and vulnerable teens may not have those skills yet. If those teens committing suicide could just 'get on' with life without worrying about what others said there might not be the problem we have today. (It's hard enough for adults with all the trolls on social media these days, imagine what it's like for children and teens.)

 

[drron]

And do you have any statistics on how many youth suicides are because of something an adult has said.In my reading the major precipitating factor is bullying by their peers.