Freedom of speech

[MEL_Traveller]

My daughter can choose whatever religion, or none at all, when she is old enough to understand.

And this is the critical issue.

You have been defending the right of others to say what they want, when they want. But think about your daughter growing up. When you have commentators and celebrities coming out with harmful views, before your daughter is old enough to understand, those comments can have a profound impact.

Celebrities like sportstars saying homosexuality is evil... what sort of an impact will that have on your daughter if she is gay? So much that she hides it from you and takes her own life? Are you there to protect her at school when she gets singled out for being mixed race? Or bullied if she isn't popular?

If nothing else, people speaking out may empower your daughter to speak out if she is ever in, or witnesses, one of the situations above.

 

[dajop]

These sort of threads have been around for years. Those who want to can simply avoid them. And those who start their rants and push their political agendas in non playground threads are rightfully shut down or moved here.

Personally I find AFF a rare place on the internet where relatively civilised discussion takes place on a range of topics. There are occasionally a few transgressions, but the forum remains relatively free of trolls, bots, party hacks and those pushing violent agendas (on all sides of the political spectrum).

 

[amaroo]

Presumably there are forums for people to discuss things that are not flying and travel related. This is the Australian Frequent Flyer Forum, not the Australian Forum or the Australian Interests Forum or whatever.



Well, in the spirit of this thread, in my opinion the growth of off topic threads (and, indeed, off topic posts that don't at all relate to flying and travel) are to AFF's detriment. Two recent and popular threads are a case in point where the convivial spirit of AFF was thrown out the window, members who otherwise get along reduced to aggressive and sometimes attacking posts that made AFF resemble the negativeness that permeates almost every FlyerTalk thread.

The more the site becomes diluted and the more these off topic threads arise, the less useful and less amicable I believe it becomes.

I've only been a member for 8 years .... it's always been the same. Actually, since one or two members have been given the flick it's toned down heaps.

 

[tgh]

Celebrities like sportstars saying homosexuality is evil

is simplifying the issue somewhat

There is a community wide belief system that conceptually supports a notion of homosexual sin.
The belief system also entreats it's members to spread the word and live the word.
The "villain" seems to be doing what he sees as right and supporting his beliefs.

A fairer public argument would be the relevance (and the truth) of the traditional christian doctrine

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Celebrities like sportstars saying homosexuality is evil

is simplifying the issue somewhat

There is a community wide belief system that conceptually supports a notion of homosexual sin.
The belief system also entreats it's members to spread the word and live the word.
The "villain" seems to be doing what he sees as right and supporting his beliefs.

A fairer public argument would be the relevance (and the truth) of the traditional christian doctrine

You can add Margaret Court to that as well.

you can have those views if you want, and you are free to express them privaetly (to yourself if necessary). But to use your celebrity to get a platform to disseminate your views is taking it to another level. And you should then take responsibility.

Such a change in Israel's views since he appeared on the front cover of a gay magazine: "Big Boys & Their Balls!" The Time Israel Folau Starred On The Cover Of A Gay Mag! - B&T

 

[tgh]

And you should then take responsibility

Indeed.. but is Israel not accepting his responsibility,… along with his duty ?

I repeat.. the primary western social belief system entreats members to "spread the word"

To that end I entreat respondents to target Christianity.. rather than the innocent lambs who just.. believe

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And you should then take responsibility

Indeed.. but is Israel not accepting his responsibility,… along with his duty ?

I repeat.. the primary western social belief system entreats members to "spread the word"

To that end I entreat respondents to target Christianity.. rather than the innocent lambs who just.. believe

What about spreading the bit about love, compassion etc etc. If you are going into the territory where you can have a real impact on someone else's mental health you have a responsibility to think very carefully.

 

[JohnK]

And this is the critical issue.

You have been defending the right of others to say what they want, when they want. But think about your daughter growing up. When you have commentators and celebrities coming out with harmful views, before your daughter is old enough to understand, those comments can have a profound impact.

You're assuming that celebrities are the only ones to have an influence on a childs growth.

When I was growing up I loved music, sports and movies. I didn't care what any of the celebrities said or did.

My daughter will be taught to tolerate. That's our job as parents not society.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You're assuming that celebrities are the only ones to have an influence on a childs growth.

When I was growing up I loved music, sports and movies. I didn't care what any of the celebrities said or did.

My daughter will be taught to tolerate. That's our job as parents not society.

You might teach your daughter to be tolerant. But what about all the people she comes into contact with? Maybe their parents aren't the same as you?

People don't just wake up one morning and think of meaningless stuff to fight for. They take up causes that have impacted them, their families and children in the past. Parents fighting for trans rights do so because their son or daughter might have committed suicide. Or been bullied or bashed at school.

Instead of taking a few minutes to understand why parents are taking up these causes, you seem to indicate we should just dismiss them? Would you not want some respect and understanding if you need to fight a cause for your daughter one day?

 

[Steady]

Is tolerance a one way street?

 

[JohnK]

You might teach your daughter to be tolerant. But what about all the people she comes into contact with? Maybe their parents aren't the same as you?

You cannot enlighten everyone. If you try you'll fail. Most people have set beliefs that are not likely to change.

e.g. Hindus don't eat beef. I'm not going to stop eating beef.

I can't stop who my daughter encounters while growing up. Some will lead her astray. We won't be able to stop her but we can certainly try to guide her.

P.S. I have some very strong beliefs that I will try to pass to my daughter. I may not succeed but I will try as she approaches 18 years old. No drugs, no alcohol, no sex and pregnancy, no tattoos.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I can't stop who my daughter encounters while growing up.

No. But society can protect her from harmful attitudes- or at least try to. And to try and foster an inclusive society where she can grow.

 

[Buzzard]

Is tolerance a one way street?

I have often wondered that myself.

 

[Steady]

I have often wondered that myself.

Not really, we both know it is.

 

[Steady]

No. But society can protect her from harmful attitudes- or at least try to. And to try and foster an inclusive society where she can grow.

Parents should be made to raise children as society says, or the government says, or a religion (Muslim/Christianity/catholic/Athiesim/Judaism) says. Or are you promoting inclusive of or everything except xx_.
Where is tolerance?
It seems like having a different opinion to anything or anyone is now considered intolerance?

 

[Buzzard]

Parents should be made to raise children as society says, or the government says, or a religion (Muslim/Christianity/catholic/Athiesim/Judaism) says. Or are you promoting inclusive of or everything except xx_.
Where is tolerance?
It seems like having a different opinion to anything or anyone is now considered intolerance?

Or being told you're unAustralian. What is that anyway??

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Parents should be made to raise children as society says, or the government says, or a religion (Muslim/Christianity/catholic/Athiesim/Judaism) says. Or are you promoting inclusive of or everything except xx_.
Where is tolerance?
It seems like having a different opinion to anything or anyone is now considered intolerance?

Some of us are saying that some religious beliefs, or some other 'beliefs' (like the Senator's) sould be carefully considered in the context of the physical or mental implications they can have.

As for the broader debate (that is 'the left wing' or 'feminism' has gone too far), it's perhaps a matter of stopping for a moment to ask the underlying basis for the change that is being sought. People don't just wake up one morning and think 'non genender birth certificates are a good idea' for the sake of it. There is usually some genesis, perhaps even a tragic loss of life, behind the campaign.

 

[burmans]

Is tolerance a one way street?

For the religious right, apparently yes, if they want the right to their own beliefs but are intolerant of the rights of others to differ. The right to your own beliefs should not extend to a right to demonise others for theirs.

 

[drron]

Sorry but it appears to me that many are intolerant of christian beliefs.

 

[Steady]

For the religious right, apparently yes,

Pot, kettle