A Complete, Updated List of Fifth-Freedom Routes

[Himeno]

No (as far as I know). You need to be inbound/outbound LAX on QF metal.

The US law in question states that the non US carrier operating on a US domestic route can only transport pax/cargo connecting on an international ticket.
QF has chosen to use a more restrictive requirement of connecting to/from QF flight only, this was so that it was easier to prove they were following the rules when they were challenged by another airline which used to operate a similar tag flight in Australia.

However, it now appears that the DOT has reinterpreted the wording of the regulation to be even more restrictive then QF was already using and changed "international ticket" to mean "operating carriers metal".

 

[JessicaTam]

A great resource. Thanks for putting it together.

 

[TrAAveller]

Please add to wiki:
Air France: Freetown (FNA) - Conakry (CKY) (only operates one-way)
Turkish: Ouagadougou (OUA) - Freetown (FNA) (round-trip)
Turkish: Kinshasa (FIH) to Libreville (LBV)
Mauritanian Airways: Freetown (FNA) - Conakry (CKY)
Mauritanian Airways: Conakry (CKY) - Dakar (DSS)
Brussels Airlines: Dakar (DSS) - Banjul (BJL) (Round-Trip)
RwandAir: Libreville (LBV) to Douala (DLA)
RwandAir: Libreville (LBV) to Cotonou (COO)
RwandAir: Entebbe (EBB) to Juba (JUB)
RwandAir: Lagos (LOS) to Accra (ACC)
RwandAir: Abidjan (ABJ) to Cotonou (COO)

 

[AFF Editor]

AF flights to PPT and PTP are not 5th freedom. Last time I looked these two airports are in France and the French army is present at both airports.
Same applies to TN flight from LAX to CDG.

You are of course correct. Thanks for updating the wiki.

The wiki is intended only for actual fifth-freedom flights that it is possible to book as a standalone sector. Although these particular ones aren't technically fifth-freedom flights, I think it's still good to have them on the list because they are useful tag flights.

Please add to wiki:
Air France: Freetown (FNA) - Conakry (CKY) (only operates one-way)
Turkish: Ouagadougou (OUA) - Freetown (FNA) (round-trip)
Turkish: Kinshasa (FIH) to Libreville (LBV)
Mauritanian Airways: Freetown (FNA) - Conakry (CKY)
Mauritanian Airways: Conakry (CKY) - Dakar (DSS)
Brussels Airlines: Dakar (DSS) - Banjul (BJL) (Round-Trip)
RwandAir: Libreville (LBV) to Douala (DLA)
RwandAir: Libreville (LBV) to Cotonou (COO)
RwandAir: Entebbe (EBB) to Juba (JUB)
RwandAir: Lagos (LOS) to Accra (ACC)
RwandAir: Abidjan (ABJ) to Cotonou (COO)

Thanks for that! All of those routes have been added to the wiki.

 

[aoa1234]

Also KLM: SCL - EZE??

 

[AFF Editor]

Also KLM: SCL - EZE??

This route is already listed in the wiki.

 

[Foreigner]

I recently came across the list in this link:

5th Freedom Flights

Unsure if it is up to date but the first column with departure cities made it easy to see options for city-pairs as well as carriers.

 

[RooFlyer]

How do you tell if a route is a 5th freedom? LH flies Frankfurt-Baku-Ashgabat. When I tried to book Baku-Ashgabat on the LH site, it thinks for a while, then gives me just a total white screen .

I'm taking that as a 'no'.

 

[Mattg]

How do you tell if a route is a 5th freedom? LH flies Frankfurt-Baku-Ashgabat. When I tried to book Baku-Ashgabat on the LH site, it thinks for a while, then gives me just a total white screen .

I'm taking that as a 'no'.

Well the standard definition of a fifth-freedom flight is that it's an international flight that doesn't touch the airline's home country and the airline is allowed to sell tickets on that flight as a standalone sector.

GYD-ASB is actually one of the bookable LH fifth-freedom routes. I'm also getting a white screen on the Lufthansa website but you can book on Expedia or elsewhere. It's also possible to book this route as an award, e.g. with United miles.

 

[Le Clair]

The JFK tag flights should never be available except when connecting to or from a qantas flight (with or without stopover). Qf was arguing this included their code shares, which DOT has denied. So this really should only leave Qantas flights on qantas metal.

If QF is selling the tag flight in conjunction with other airlines there is a risk passengers could be denied boarding and reaccommodated on AA, even up to the point of arriving at the gate. Qf would risk the second half of the fine becoming payable if they allowed travel.

we saw it with cabotage through lifemiles where carriage was denied even though ticketed.

Qantas should therefore change LAX-JFK to LAX-YYZ-JFK, that way, they could exercise 5th Freedom Rights on, effectively, US domestic flights and add YYZ to their North American destinations.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Qantas should therefore change LAX-JFK to LAX-YYZ-JFK, that way, they could exercise 5th Freedom Rights on, effectively, US domestic flights and add YYZ to their North American destinations.

While they still wouldn't be able to sell LAX-YYZ-JFK as a single through ticket as that would breach cabotage rules, if they had rights they could sell LAX-YYZ and YYZ-JFK separately. But not both together.

 

[Le Clair]

While they still wouldn't be able to sell LAX-YYZ-JFK as a single through ticket as that would breach cabotage rules, if they had rights they could sell LAX-YYZ and YYZ-JFK separately. But not both together.

Exactly, we do this every day in regional Australia. One can never book a single ticket from, say, Hervey Bay to Bangkok. One always has to book BNE-BKK (via SYD) and then on a seperate ticket HVB-BNE-HVB. Effectively, at the airport in BKK, one presents both, seperate, tickets, and you get boarding passes all the way to your final destination, albeit on seperate bookings. Easy!
I would love to fly from LAX-JFK via YYZ, especially in autumn, the lowish altitude sector over upstate NY would be spectacular. Imagine flying YYZ-JFK on a Qantas 787-9 in international configuration. WAY better than on AA on a positioning domestic sector say, between DFW and LAX on the way to NRT where, well, you know what it's like...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Exactly, we do this every day in regional Australia. One can never book a single ticket from, say, Hervey Bay to Bangkok. One always has to book BNE-BKK (via SYD) and then on a seperate ticket HVB-BNE-HVB. Effectively, at the airport in BKK, one presents both, seperate, tickets, and you get boarding passes all the way to your final destination, albeit on seperate bookings. Easy!
I would love to fly from LAX-JFK via YYZ, especially in autumn, the lowish altitude sector over upstate NY would be spectacular. Imagine flying YYZ-JFK on a Qantas 787-9 in international configuration. WAY better than on AA on a positioning domestic sector say, between DFW and LAX on the way to NRT where, well, you know what it's like...

Your example from bangkok is not a cabotage issue. In theory you could purchase two separate tickets to fly LAX-YVR-JFK. but the two separate tickets would attract additional fees and charges for airport processing. And you’d need to make sure it met minimum connecting times, especially if you had to clear immigration.

 

[Le Clair]

Your example from bangkok is not a cabotage issue. In theory you could purchase two separate tickets to fly LAX-YVR-JFK. but the two separate tickets would attract additional fees and charges for airport processing. And you’d need to make sure it met minimum connecting times, especially if you had to clear immigration.

Sorry, YYZ not YVR.
Yes, I know that. it was an illustration of the ease and simplicity of having to deal with separate bookings to get to a destination even on the same carrier, even in the same country. Interestingly though, as US customs/immigration is completed at YYZ rather than JFK, I wonder, originating at LAX (where you have already cleared US CBP), if you stayed on the "US side" at YYZ whether there would be any immigration or processing costs? Not likely.
Just pondering a way that Qantas could legitimately carry US passengers from LAX to JFK by using Fifth Freedom Rights and potentially add the largest city in Canada to its destination list. It would be very handy.

 

[Mattg]

Sorry, YYZ not YVR.
Yes, I know that. it was an illustration of the ease and simplicity of having to deal with separate bookings to get to a destination even on the same carrier, even in the same country. Interestingly though, as US customs/immigration is completed at YYZ rather than JFK, I wonder, originating at LAX (where you have already cleared US CBP), if you stayed on the "US side" at YYZ whether there would be any immigration or processing costs? Not likely.
Just pondering a way that Qantas could legitimately carry US passengers from LAX to JFK by using Fifth Freedom Rights and potentially add the largest city in Canada to its destination list. It would be very handy.

Qantas cannot legally fly passengers from LAX to JFK, even with a transit through YYZ. So separate tickets would be required. Because of the separate tickets, anyone connecting through to JFK would be required to clear Canadian customs and immigration, check in again in YYZ, and then clear US customs a second time en-route to JFK. This is not commercially palatable and there is no way that Qantas would do it.

Qantas could fly SYD-YVR-JFK (as an example). But they would be competing with CX and PR on the YVR-JFK leg, and they would lose the benefit of feeding connecting passengers from MEL and BNE onto the JFK flight.

 

[Le Clair]

Hmm

Qantas cannot legally fly passengers from LAX to JFK, even with a transit through YYZ. So separate tickets would be required. Because of the separate tickets, anyone connecting through to JFK would be required to clear Canadian customs and immigration, check in again in YYZ, and then clear US customs a second time en-route to JFK. This is not commercially palatable and there is no way that Qantas would do it.

Qantas could fly SYD-YVR-JFK (as an example). But they would be competing with CX and PR on the YVR-JFK leg, and they would lose the benefit of feeding connecting passengers from MEL and BNE onto the JFK flight.

Hmmm... Thanks Mattg. As usual, your insight is excellent.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

From July 2018, Egyptair will add a twice-weekly BKK-HKG tag onto their existing Thailand flights. (Will be interesting to see their fares. Nice departure time from BKK. The return gets in quite late.)

EGYPTAIR proposing Hong Kong launch in July 2018

 

[AFF Editor]

From July 2018, Egyptair will add a twice-weekly BKK-HKG tag onto their existing Thailand flights. (Will be interesting to see their fares. Nice departure time from BKK. The return gets in quite late.)

EGYPTAIR proposing Hong Kong launch in July 2018

Good find! Tickets aren't yet on sale but I've added it to the wiki.

 

[blandy62]

good compilation. very accurate as far as asia is concern. I just doubt that Ethiopian will get the right on the HKG-MNL segment, at least not for now

Ural is not operating PEK-BKK anymore, they now fly PEK-KBV

 

[AFF Editor]

good compilation. very accurate as far as asia is concern. I just doubt that Ethiopian will get the right on the HKG-MNL segment, at least not for now

Ural is not operating PEK-BKK anymore, they now fly PEK-KBV

Thanks. PEK-BKK was not on the list but I've added PEK-KBV for Ural Airlines.