Italian Card Fraud

[simongr]

I currently have a primary account that all salaries are paid into - major bills are paid out of it very close to pay day and then spare cash siphoned off. This has a multi function card attached to it acting like a debit card. I couldnt be bothered drip feeding the account.

 

[Mr_Gimlet]

I had a card stolen last week (actually my wife's) and CBA were great.

I was in the UK a few times last year, and having a credit card that needed a signature raised eyebrows and many a call to management. (One restaurant initially refused to take my Aussie card!). Chip and PIN is very big in the UK, they will never take your card away - a little machine comes to your table.

Ironically, a few days before the theft I was about to ask for a new card with a chip anyway for security reasons, so roll on on chip and PIN in Australia and the end of card skimming.

 

[simongr]

Just a shame Amex aren't doing Chip + Pin

 

[Mal]

Just a shame Amex aren't doing Chip + Pin

There are trials of chipped cards at the moment (MC&Visa with certain banks), and also Visa&MC are implementing the option to use a pin instead of signing, but neither of these are Chip+Pin - they are small steps towards it though.

Australia will implement forced Chip+Pin at some stage - it's just that it's not financially viable for the banks at the moment (ie, they aren't losing enough to fraud to cover the cost of changeover).

Chip+Pin does reduce certain types of fraud, but doesn't prevent fraud from happening. The scum will move onto more web fraud (just need credit card number, CCV number, and name), telephone sales fraud (similar to web fraud), using credit cards overseas on terminals that aren't chip enabled, and if they can capture your pin number, ATM based cash advance/withdrawal fraud where the ATM doesn't authenticate the card using the chip.

So even after it's all implemented, there will still be fraud occuring.

 

[simongr]

I was more commenting on the fact that as Amex aren't Chip/Pin they are less likely to be easily used overseas. Also my understanding is that major retailers are now accepting PIN instead of signature for credit transactions.

 

[Cynicor]

Yeah,

Home has details, but I think it is dependant on your card issuer, rather than the retailer. Also, on the amex site they say they won't be getting involved. Now to check my Citibank and ANZ cards.

Jon

 

[serfty]

Indeed. My only fraudulent credit card transaction in recent years was from a Melbourne taxi driver.

... & mine from an AKL taxi driver ... :evil:

Oh, yes, I did use a Citibank card in BKK - while there were no fraudulent transactions, that was enough for Citi to cancel the card and provide a new one ... :-|

 

[thegurio]

MrsGurio works for one of the big banks (which bank? I'm not sure) and we have the chip card and so far it is getting a real workout! Don't know if its any better OS or not as we got it when we came back but it's nice to know that you're that little bit safer...

 

[tgh]

I have just been skimmed by a multinational airline .. who have shown no interest at all in reviewing a 20% overcharge on my card......
Amex have shown interest , and as a first step .. adjusted my statement.
They then wrote to the offender asking why.
I hope they have more luck than the two agencies through whose hands my cc number passed..they are singularly unimpressed and frustrated by the complete lack of interest shown by the amex merchant.
Bottom line is that a chip, or a signature, would have made no difference at all.
An interested and fair intermediary (in this case amex) makes all the difference....

 

[egoode]

Just to let you know even if Australia do introduce Chip and Pin it won't help when travelling overseas as they don't seem to be compatible.

My dad tried to use his in the UK and it didn't work and I've tried to use my UK Chip and Pin cards in Australia and they also didn't work. So you will still have to use signatures to approve the spend. Why can't they decide on worldwide standards for things like this :evil:

 

[serfty]

The times the chip in my Visacard have been used it worked fine. This was Oz, NZ and HKG. I have yet to try it in Europe.

 

[drron]

... & mine from an AKL taxi driver ... :evil:

Oh, yes, I did use a Citibank card in BKK - while there were no fraudulent transactions, that was enough for Citi to cancel the card and provide a new one ... :-|

Happened to me yesterday.only used it once in BKK at a place I have been using CCs at for 15 years without a problem but there it goes.Everytime they do this I lose a few more days of the interest free period.Hmmm.

 

[medhead]

I couldnt be bothered drip feeding the account.

I guess that is your personal choice, to make a debit type card no more secure that a CC.

However, that doesn't change the situation that debit cards can provide greater protection of a person money if they can be bothered to use them it a certain manner.

 

[Skyring]

Indeed. My only fraudulent credit card transaction in recent years was from a Melbourne taxi driver.

Ahh, the cabbie's finger slips, an extra zero is added, the drunk passenger signs the slip, and nobody notices. Honest mistake. Happens all the time.

Pete, whistling cheerfully as he books his next trip

 

[oz_mark]

Ahh, the cabbie's finger slips, an extra zero is added, the drunk passenger signs the slip, and nobody notices. Honest mistake. Happens all the time.

Pete, whistling cheerfully as he books his next trip

Hmm, they normally pull the number swap on me. 36 morphs itself into 63, or the hotel that turned 619 into 691 on my CC.

 

[Skyring]

Hmm, they normally pull the number swap on me. 36 morphs itself into 63, or the hotel that turned 619 into 691 on my CC.

Actually, I'd be hideously embarrassed if I did something like that to a passenger. My card terminal beeps at me if the fare is over $50, which it rarely is for a trip around Canberra.

However, the cabcharge handset has a dodgy display, with half the pixels missing, and it would be easy to make a mistake. If I think I've made an error, I check the docket before giving it to the passenger to sign.

Having said that, it would be easy to set up some sort of fraud in a cab, especially with a stream of tourists unfamiliar with the regular setup, and/or drunk, and/or using corporate cards. How many people would notice if there was an extra card reader to record the magnetic strip, and an overhead camera to grab the PIN entry and the card's physical details including the three digit check code?

The webcam on my MacAir is about the size of a pinhole, and phone cameras don't have lenses much bigger. In all the jumble of equipment commonly found in a taxi, who would spot any unauthorised extras, especially if well hidden or camouflaged?

 

[sr81]

Having said that, it would be easy to set up some sort of fraud in a cab, especially with a stream of tourists unfamiliar with the regular setup, and/or drunk, and/or using corporate cards. How many people would notice if there was an extra card reader to record the magnetic strip, and an overhead camera to grab the PIN entry and the card's physical details including the three digit check code?

The webcam on my MacAir is about the size of a pinhole, and phone cameras don't have lenses much bigger. In all the jumble of equipment commonly found in a taxi, who would spot any unauthorised extras, especially if well hidden or camouflaged?

Had a little time to think whilst waiting at the airport have we?

In all seriousness that's just a little scary, brings home the importance of always having $50 left in the wallet for a cab after a BIG night.

 

[NM]

Ahh, the cabbie's finger slips, an extra zero is added, the drunk passenger signs the slip, and nobody notices. Honest mistake. Happens all the time.

Pete, whistling cheerfully as he books his next trip

nope, that is not how it happened for me.

The electronic machine is "not working" so a manual carbon paper swipe is used. That one proceed as normal. A month or so later another transaction is processed for a similar amount (a round $50 in my case) plus surcharges. The manual transactions are almost like cash currency in the taxi industry and can be exchanged between various people several time before actually being presented for charging.

In my case, the processing company (not Cab Charge, but another that processes in a similar manner) was less than active in fixing it. I was given a mobile phone number to call and the first name of the person who would answer. He took my details and listened to my story and promised to sort it out in the next few days. Well he did nothing. I make at least 10 follow up calls and each time he promised it would be sorted in the next few days. Eventually I called Diners Club and queried the transaction. Naturally the "receipt" could not be located and Diners reversed the transaction.

The person at the processing company I was "dealing with" blamed the driver and said he has done it before. But I think its a much bigger scam than just that driver. I think the person I was "dealing with" was also involved in some way and had no intention of fixing the problem.

I think they hope that people using corporate cards will not be check properly an djust have the company pay the bill regardless of whether is was really correctly processed.

 

[serfty]

NM's story is v. similar to my AKL one 'cept that I noticed it online before the statement arrived and challenged immediately though my card service provider.

The "voucher" I "signed" was forwarded to them and I in turn received a copy along with a letter nicely indicating I may have forgotten.

I replied with a Stat Dec stating that, since:

1. It was not my signature on the voucher and,
2. I was not actually in New Zealand at the date written on the voucher,

the transaction was not instigated by me!

I received an apologetic 'phone call from the bank and soon after my funds were reimbursed. :-|

 

[austrider]

I was more commenting on the fact that as Amex aren't Chip/Pin they are less likely to be easily used overseas. Also my understanding is that major retailers are now accepting PIN instead of signature for credit transactions.

simongr - just wondering how did you go in the end?

It's also interesting to note that a while I received a letter from Amex confirming that they will not use chip & pin... based on that they have excellent fraud detection and management process. (not exact words - my interpretation of the letter).