How do you know if you're a dual citizen or not?

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wandering_fred said:
Just a three way dual citizenship.... a-b b-c a-c

But who's counting...

Just wandering

Fred

PS
Examination on dual citizenship is just part of the scrutiny a candidate would face.
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It appears sone of the scrutineers thus far have only considered dual citizenship to be if a candidate for the Senate was born overseas.

Would be interesting to find out if the advisors to other pollies who were born in Australia yet are dual nationals due to a parent being born overseas (eg Federal Leader of the Opposition) had to renounce their citizenship prior to nominating themselves as a candidate.
 
It looks like the Schadenfreude the other parties felt about the Greens over this matter has now well and truly been reversed.
 
Apparently it's all ok for those who 'didn't know'. The intention of the law is that you can't have dual loyalty, or be influenced by the other country... and the argument is if you didn't know, you couldn't be influenced. Some court case out there (didn't catch the name) which the Libs will be relying on. Apparently the same case will save a couple of the cross-benchers as well.
 
[44. Any person who -
(i.) Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power (...)

shall be incapable of being chosen or of sitting as a senator or a member of the House of Representatives.]

Interpreting the "or" as usual leads to:

Any person who (...) is a subject or a citizen (...) of a foreign power

Doesn't seem to leave a whole lot of wiggle room.
 
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MEL_Traveller said:
Apparently it's all ok for those who 'didn't know'. The intention of the law is that you can't have dual loyalty, or be influenced by the other country... and the argument is if you didn't know, you couldn't be influenced. Some court case out there (didn't catch the name) which the Libs will be relying on. Apparently the same case will save a couple of the cross-benchers as well.
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Section 44 of the Commonwealth Constitution is what is relevant.

It's not a well settled area of the law. But relevant cases include:

Sarina v O'Conner (1946)

Crittenden v Anderson (1956)

From my reasonable understanding of the area of law Barnaby Joyce is absolutely fine. Although the High Court will not be bound by precedent on the matter.

For those not familiar with constitutional law or constitutional interpretation by the High Court, you should note that the court does not favour a literal approach, rather it favours an approach which focuses on the purpose of the law. It is on this basis that I have indicated that Barnaby is fine.
 
Courtesy - Antony Green, ABC

--------------------------------

In a 1992 ruling] the High Court said just because a country gives an Australian citizenship doesn't mean that Australia has to recognise it.

Out of that judgement came this view that if you've got a foreign citizenship, you must make all reasonable steps to get rid of it.

In that original case, Justice Deane spoke about the need for a candidate having to accept or acquiesce in having this foreign citizenship.

You would think that those words would come into play, particularly in this case.

That's why the Government is quite confident about Barnaby Joyce.

If the High Court says he's disqualified, probably 40 per cent to 50 per cent of Australians are disqualified from running for parliament.

How can you have adherence to a foreign power if you don't know you have it?

Clearly the Parliament is throwing a number of cases at the court in the hope the court will provide greater clarity on what is meant by Section 44(1)[/QUOTE]
 
In this whole shermozzle, it might be useful to discriminate between knowingly being a foreign citizen and not renouncing it before your election, and being 'deemed' a citizen of a foreign country without ever knowing, or agreeing.

Or is that too subtle a thing?

I wonder how those riding on their high-horses re Joyce would go if North Korea enacted legislation saying that every citizen of Australia was also a citizen of North Korea ... and didn't tell anyone for a few years? Seems to be similar to what New Zealand is saying - we'll call you a citizen whether or not you know it, agree to it, or like it.
 
RooFlyer said:
In this whole shermozzle, it might be useful to discriminate between knowingly being a foreign citizen and not renouncing it before your election, and being 'deemed' a citizen of a foreign country without ever knowing, or agreeing.

Or is that too subtle a thing?

I wonder how those riding on their high-horses re Joyce would go if North Korea enacted legislation saying that every citizen of Australia was also a citizen of North Korea ... and didn't tell anyone for a few years? Seems to be similar to what New Zealand is saying.
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Very good points. In a similar discussion with a friend this evening I said I may be a dual citizen of Romania and not even know it just because the government of Romania declares it so (I have absolutely no connection with Romania at all!). But I like your example of North Korea even better. If North Korea declared every member of our Federal Parliament to be a citizen of their country and the High Court of Australia took a literal view of section 44 that would be a very interesting situation indeed!
 
That was a hypothetical discussed by Deane.

What if some nation decided to: "…disqualify the whole of the Australian parliament by unilaterally conferring upon all of its members the rights and privileges of a citizen of that nation?"
 
RooFlyer said:
I wonder how those riding on their high-horses re Joyce would go if North Korea enacted legislation saying that every citizen of Australia was also a citizen of North Korea ... and didn't tell anyone for a few years?
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... Post #35.
Happy Trails said:
Someone like Kim Jong-un could have a bit of fun, bestowing citizenships on unsuspecting foreign pollies.
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The topic was discussed on ABC's Q&A tonight with one of the guests Prof Kim Rubenstein who is an expert in citizenship law at ANU in CBR.

Bill Shorten is special guest next week apparently so wonder if they'll quiz him on whether he formally renounced his UK Citizenship by descent (father born in UK) prior to entering Federal Politics?
 
RooFlyer said:
I wonder how those riding on their high-horses re Joyce would go if North Korea enacted legislation saying that every citizen of Australia was also a citizen of North Korea ... and didn't tell anyone for a few years? Seems to be similar to what New Zealand is saying - we'll call you a citizen whether or not you know it, agree to it, or like it.
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It's a little different given NZ citizenship is by descent, not just bestowed on every Aussie for the heck of it.
 
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RooFlyer said:
I wonder how those riding on their high-horses re Joyce would go if North Korea enacted legislation saying that every citizen of Australia was also a citizen of North Korea ... and didn't tell anyone for a few years? Seems to be similar to what New Zealand is saying - we'll call you a citizen whether or not you know it, agree to it, or like it.
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The fault with this argument is that you are suggesting North Korea would do this without telling anyone. The situation with New Zealand can hardly described in the same manner, and for anyone with New Zealand descent would normally be quite aware that
NZ defines citizenship in this manner. Anyone running for parliament could have taken the view that maybe I should check this, you can't check it out if it's hidden. Not the same situation at all, frankly drawing quite a long bow in fact IMO.
 
Looks like he's using the same defence / excuse as the ON senator.

Nocookies | The Australian

South Australian senator Nick Xenophon has conceded he never heard back from Greek and Cypriot authorities when he attempted to renounce any possible foreign citizenship, raising fresh questions about his election.
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