Overnight long haul flights why?

[Limewood]

I've wondered why we have to depart from abroad near midnight and arrive in OZ stuffed (if in Y) at 6/8am in mornings, yet one can fly home from HNL in daylight, to me its dam inconvenient to passengers so why do airlines do it?.

 

[juddles]

Because they are punishing us for no real world operational/time slot availability/airport curfew reasons?

 

[opusman]

If they can get people to sleep for most of the first leg it's less food/drink they have to provide?

 

[Austman]

I've done plenty of long-hauls that arrive to Australia in the afternoon or evening.

Just not many on Qantas.

 

[blackcat20]

Fleet utilisation? They can then turn the plane around mid morning.

 

[TomVexille]

Business demand. Put in a full day at the office and then arrive in time for a morning meeting.

 

[Limewood]

I thought it was saving fuel, so no favours it seems. I don't think by a country mile about 80% of flights arrive early am, dam inconvenient.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Fleet utilisation? They can then turn the plane around mid morning.

I thought that this was the accepted reason for the timings.

 

[NM]

Often its just due to the available windows at each end matching up. Take LAX-SYD for example, departure ex-LAX is late evening and arrival at SYD is early morning. Leave LAX any earlier and you arrive in SYD curfew hours. Leave later and its unattractive for passengers. It also allows for maximum connection options from other USA ports including east coast origins.

Europe to Aus similarly has to work the windows, but is complicated by the transit stop along the way.

Asia to Aus is often about aircraft utilisation too. Depart northbound in the am for a pm arrival, turn around in the evening to arrive back in Aus early am after curfew or airport operations open up. The small time change works best for that pattern. Alternate patter that is become popular is very late evening or wee hours morning departure northbound from ports with no evening curfew (such as BNE, MEL) and "daytime" southbound. Its nice where there is the option for daytime travel in both directions between Aus and Asia destinations.

 

[Himeno]

Departing LAX between 3 and 10pm would run into SYD curfew (assuming 14 hour flight and no daylight saving). There used to be an 8am QF departure back to SYD from LAX.

The reason they run those times, often while leaving the aircraft on the ground for longer then a return flight would be, is the assumption that people want overnight. That may work when there is only one flight/day. But when there are 2 flights, it leads to silliness like sensible departure frequencies (eg, 10am, 2pm), but then both flights return within the same hour.

Rather then 2 flights returning less then an hour apart, why can't they have something like this?

SYD-LAX
1030-0615
1615-1200

LAX-SYD
0830-1730+1
2230-0730+2

 

[JohnPhelan]

You might recall QF used to have lunchtime departures ex LHR that arrived in Australia in the evenings. Perfect timing and much better than a late night departure (what the hell do you do with your luggage all day?) and a break-of-dawn arrival into Australia with a million other people?

Why on earth do the airlines (QF mainly, but others too) persist with this theory that everyone wants to arrive in Australia at 6am??

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I've wondered why we have to depart from abroad near midnight and arrive in OZ stuffed (if in Y) at 6/8am in mornings, yet one can fly home from HNL in daylight, to me its dam inconvenient to passengers so why do airlines do it?.

Take another airline! CX and SQ have quadruple daily flights from MEL and SYD. You can fly day time both ways.

 

[dajop]

You might recall QF used to have lunchtime departures ex LHR that arrived in Australia in the evenings. Perfect timing and much better than a late night departure (what the hell do you do with your luggage all day?) and a break-of-dawn arrival into Australia with a million other people?

Why on earth do the airlines (QF mainly, but others too) persist with this theory that everyone wants to arrive in Australia at 6am??

What do you mean used to have? Or is your definition of Australia only SYD ... QF10 departs LHR late morning and arrives into MEL from LHR mid evening. From Europe there are great options into most Australian ports in the evening on a range of carriers (SQ, EK, CX, MH, TG, QR, maybe even CZ). A lot of Asian carriers run their flights to Europe overnight ex Asia but maximise fleet utilisation by returning mid morning - early afternoon, arriving in Asia early morning, and connecting to day flights to Oz.

It is puzzling that of the what 100 or so weekly departures from NA America there are only 2 or 3 that depart at a different time. Would have thought a mid morning departure to SYD might work at least for one flight - but obviously not.

 

[ozjuice]

I find LAX to BNE at 11.50PM is perfect. It means i get a full day to do as i want and then guaranteed sleep on the way home. Arrive early to BNE and not a wasted day then either.....just have to accept that day i missed.

 

[Himeno]

It is puzzling that of the what 100 or so weekly departures from NA America there are only 2 or 3 that depart at a different time. Would have thought a mid morning departure to SYD might work at least for one flight - but obviously not.

It would work. If they got over their need to have connections possible from 60 cities instead of 30.

 

[NM]

Rather then 2 flights returning less then an hour apart, why can't they have something like this?

SYD-LAX
1030-0615
1615-1200

LAX-SYD
0830-1730+1
2230-0730+2

The am departure ex-LAX is ok if you are in LAX. But when commencing travel from anywhere east of California it won't make for attractive same-day connections. Hence why that flight was the first one dropped when loads are light. Another issue at certain times of the year was the fact that strong headwinds east-bound combined with temperatures mid-morning being significanty higher than late pm, which under extreme conditions can impact the performance of the aircraft, sometimes limiting the uplift capability. Much less of an issue with A380 than it was with the pre-ER 747s.

 

[dajop]

The am departure ex-LAX is ok if you are in LAX. But when commencing travel from anywhere east of California it won't make for attractive same-day connections. Hence why that flight was the first one dropped when loads are light.

Although I note that in April - October a 12pm departure would reach SYD at 2015, which would allow connections from a range of east coast and mid west cities (including NYC, MIA, ORD, CLT, DFW, IAH and others), and at the SYD end would allow onwards connection to MEL as well. You'd think with smaller planes coming online (787) it might be possible to build such a service, compared to when it was all 747s.

 

[Quickstatus]

Rather then 2 flights returning less then an hour apart, why can't they have something like this?

SYD-LAX
1030-0615
1615-1200

LAX-SYD
0830-1730+1
2230-0730+2

QF used to have a 1100 hrs lax to syd.
Any flights that depart from lax in the morning and arriving there later in the afternoon is not popular for passengers transiting from/to other parts.

in terms of jetlag management the idea of arriving early and departing latee has merit

 

[ermen]

I always thought it was mainly business driven (i.e. please the people who provide the profits for the flight?)

 

[Limewood]

Not forgetting hotel check in times early am during busy times.

And sure there are a smattering of inbound Int. flights at a reasonable time of day but not the norm but a swag of inconvenient early am arrivals. I'd recon the first to change the ridiculous early am arrivals will do very well with the flying public, are you listening QF? - it could be a real "enhancement" for a change