Qantas cancelling accounts of people who buy/sell points on "black market"

[esseeeayeenn]

On the one hand, they probably don't need people earning status on the cheapest possible fares.

On the other hand, they *love* people clueless enough to accumulate points and not use them.

Can we not conflate points and SCs?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Life is far too short to lose sleep worrying about how other people acquire their frequent flyer points.

I was at an airline loyalty program fraud forum in USA few months ago and it was clear that the US based airlines no longer care about 'miles fraud' in this sense where people buy/sell miles. Although there is potentially a lost opportunity cost whereby the selling party potentially never utilizing the points (and therefore expiring or being used on low value redemptions), and the receiving party not creating new points into the system to redeem their flight (thus potential lost revenue) - there is an even larger cost when the FFP fails to identify how to properly monetize the "problems" faced by parties buying/selling.

This activity is largely eradicated through use of data intelligence and the FFP selling miles/points at a reasonable rate. QF Loyalty isn't exactly the leader in either of these areas and I suspect this not only compounds their internal issues surrounding member fraud issues - but also hurts the QF Loyalty bottom line through missed opportunities that can be challenging to measure.

US programs (namely United & AA) don't care too much for the 'black market' and instead focus on other areas where real fraud is a material loss for the business.

Also with the new accounting standards for loyalty programs being introduced where revenue can't be booked until the points are redeemed - would give yet another inducement for the FFP to help members burn the points!

 

[samh004]

Having not read the full thread, wouldn't the vast majority of points being sold also be stolen from hacking into people's accounts? Having experienced a hack late last year on several occasions it's not always about movie vouchers.

 

[cove]

Be respectful of the programme rules and life will be good for you.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Be respectful of the programme rules and life will be good for you.

I don't know. I wonder if there is any data on that? A lot of people sell and buy them voluntarily.

 

[medhead]

Only one comment, this stuff does not decrease award availability. It increases competition for the same number of awards.

Well you aren't condemned whilst you are in jail, nor have you any conviction against you. If it turns out your are innocent, or found not guilty, you're set free, even if this happens in advance of the trial.

but nothing can take away what your cell mate called bruce did to you late at night.

 

[burnt]

QF cancelling points

[h=1]Bought QFF Points using Family Xfer - Qantas Have Suspended my Account Pending Investigation[/h]

Gerbud on 02/03/2016 - 14:12
Last edited 02/03/2016 - 14:13
Hey,
So the other night, I could not login online to my account. Called up Qantas and said my account was under investigation.
Guy called me today and said that they have audited my account and want proof that the family x-fers of points were coming from actual family members.
I have had 5 xfers in the past few months (2 from my GF so no issues there) and 3 from people who I bought online from.
I have been given 21 days and told that if I can not prove these points were from family members, they will be cancelled and my account will be suspended.
I have already used most of the points to book 2 x rewards flights. The guy said this would have to be reviewed on a case by case basis.
I am also concerned about landing the people in trouble I bought from.
Has anyone else been in this situation? What did you do and how did it play out?
Any advice much appreciated? Thanks

Saw this on a website, thought all would be interested.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Re: QF cancelling points

See below thread.

 

[JohnK]

Re: QF cancelling points

Bought points on internet? Buying points is against the terms and conditions of the QFF program and the purchase is definitely not a family transfer unless they are actually a relative not some stranger you have never met.

 

[Red Roo]

Re: QF cancelling points

This is already being discussed here: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....tas-cancelling-accounts-people-who-74440.html

 

[RooFlyer]

Excellent they get stomped on. It's hard enough to get J award seats without fleas infesting the market.

You do realise this doesn't actually create any more points.
It just moves around the points which have already been earned.
So it doesn't affect your chances of getting a J award seat, or devalue points in any other way.

Sorry, that's a non sequitur to the post your quoted. Ten people with 10,000 points each can't get much in the way of J Award seats. But transfer/sell those points to one person and a J seat becomes a definite prospect. Every person who, one way or another, gets over the J seat cost threshold affects my chances of getting the same J seat, directly or indirectly.

Life is far too short to lose sleep worrying about how other people acquire their frequent flyer points.

Then perhaps stop worrying about it?

 

[RooFlyer]

A "good analogy" is an oxymoron.

Huh? I might have had too much Bacardi & Coke tonight (it is 12:17am in FokkerCentral) but how does that make sense?

Maybe oxymoron "does not mean what you think it does"

It means a figure of speech in which contradictory terms appear in conjunction.
Analogies are a poor debating technique.
So "a good analogy" is a contradiction in terms.

Something for the grammar thread? But 'a good analogy' is not 'an oxymoron'; they have quite different meanings and uses.

There can be analogies given which clearly illustrate the point the speaker/writer wishes to make and the listener/reader gets the point. Then there are analogies which fail to do that as the speaker/writer has chosen the words badly and the point is lost.

I thinks its pretty reasonable to describe the first case as ' a good analogy' in that it worked and the second case as 'a poor analogy' in that it didn't work. 'Good' and 'bad' are merely qualifying the type of analogy in the observer's opinion.

Also, is it actually the case that if "analogies are a poor debating technique" (that's debatable) then ""a good analogy" is a contradiction in terms"? I can't see that the latter follows the former at all.

 

[SpudOz]

That really is bollocks. Aggregation of points is everything.

Note to team: Start scrutinising family transactions with "Sean" as a name.

You might all be surprised to know how few family transfers are done. Matching a number on Ozbargain or wherever to a transaction is basically trivial.

Oh great, my oldest son is called Sean. Really!

 

[Mattg]

Hopefully the Mattg from AFF is unaffected...

I just had a look and, sure enough, someone on Ozbargain is using my AFF handle!

No, that definitely is not me

 

[awkwardpaws]

I just had a look and, sure enough, someone on Ozbargain is using my AFF handle!

No, that definitely is not me

phew, a few of us were worried

 

[serfty]

That really is bollocks. Aggregation of points is everything.

Note to team: Start scrutinising family transactions with "Sean" as a name.

You might all be surprised to know how few family transfers are done. Matching a number on Ozbargain or wherever to a transaction is basically trivial.

Agreed 35K is not enough for a transpacific one-way award on QF.

So three unrelated people each having 35K points cannot redeem such an award(lets forget about "points Top Up" from QFF at the moment). Two of these 'trade' 35K to the other's account .

Now the third account has enough points

 

[blu]

Re: QF cancelling points

This is already being discussed here: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....tas-cancelling-accounts-people-who-74440.html

next, the internet Business Class Travel discounters (mileage brokers).

 

[eric2011]

Re: QF cancelling points

Sorry, I'm a mean, hard pr**k. Lose the reward flights, closure of accounts, not eligible for new accounts. People transferring to you, lose any remaining points and closure of accounts.

Now to sit back with a mellow red and watch the fireworks

 

[ozflier]

I just wonder if some of these points "purchasers" have found some way of scoring more than one J award seat Oz to the USA.
I'd love to know their secret if that is the case.

 

[BD1959]

phew, a few of us were worried

My reaction too! Good to hear you're unaffected (the real!) Mattg!

Regards,

BD