Why do most people only care about QFF and Virgin Velocity?

[Johnstone]

If you could be gifted one million points from any airline, wouldn't QFF and Virgin be lower on the pecking order? Unless if you're using your points for domestic flights - even then, BA Avios seem to be better value.

If you're mainly using points for International travel, is American Airlines is the best way to go? They need less points for the same route to most places, and charge very little surcharges (unless flying BA).

Singapore Airlines and CX are also good value for using points, but they charge surcharges, so I would rank them below American Airlines.

So, if you want to have maximum value for money on your points, best way should be to use Amex or Diners Club so you can transfer to SPG, and then transfer to AA, BA, CX, Singapore etc.

All of this is assuming that you earn your points mainly through credit card usage. (ie you don't fly that often so don't earn points through paid flights)

Is my logic correct, or am I totally on the wrong track?

 

[smit0847]

Because its very difficult to earn a lot of points in foreign programs- they have next to no Australuan earning partners.

But yes, AA or SQ points are far more valuable

 

[yohy?!]

AA may have a lower burn rate but they are next to impossible to earn in AU through credit cards without losing most of the value through laundering them via SPG.

Also for people who fly the various earning rates and status bonuses are skewed towards encouraging you to earn with the home program of the airline.

 

[Johnstone]

AA may have a lower burn rate but they are next to impossible to earn in AU through credit cards without losing most of the value through laundering them via SPG.

Also for people who fly the various earning rates and status bonuses are skewed towards encouraging you to earn with the home program of the airline.

Fair enough - the bonuses earning rates give the illusion that you get a lot of points, but in actuality, they don't justify the value because you'll still end up needing more points to fly with them than their competitors!

I've done a calculation of Virgin vs AA for SYD-LHR and SYD- LAX. For the SYD-LHR flight, I'm not sure what the actual miles are for Virgin, so I've used the maximum one-way miles in their rewards chart (https://www.velocityfrequentflyer.com/content/Redeem/Airlines/PointsTables/). I think the actual miles should actually be greater.

Either way, it shows that for economy flights, Virgin is better value, but for business and first class, AA is by far the better airline to fly.

[TABLE="width: 1386"]
[TR]
[TD]Earn [/TD]
[TD]Miles per Dollar Spent[/TD]
[TD]Miles (Economy Sydney - LAX)[/TD]
[TD]Miles (Business Sydney - LAX)[/TD]
[TD]Miles (First Sydney - LAX)[/TD]
[TD]Amount Needed to Spend to get Flight Economy[/TD]
[TD]Amount Needed to Spend to get Flight Business[/TD]
[TD]Amount Needed to Spend to get Flight First[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Virgin (Citi Prestige)[/TD]
[TD] $ 1.333[/TD]
[TD] 55,000[/TD]
[TD] 110,000[/TD]
[TD] 165,000[/TD]
[TD] $ 41,260[/TD]
[TD] $ 82,521[/TD]
[TD] $ 123,781[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]AA (Through Diners Mastercard)[/TD]
[TD] $ 0.781[/TD]
[TD] 37,500[/TD]
[TD] 62,500[/TD]
[TD] 72,500[/TD]
[TD] $ 48,015[/TD]
[TD] $ 80,026[/TD]
[TD] $ 92,830[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Earn [/TD]
[TD]Miles per Dollar Spent[/TD]
[TD]Miles (Economy Sydney - LHR)[/TD]
[TD]Miles (Business Sydney - LHR)[/TD]
[TD]Miles (First Sydney - LHR)[/TD]
[TD]Amount Needed to Spend to get Flight Economy[/TD]
[TD]Amount Needed to Spend to get Flight Business[/TD]
[TD]Amount Needed to Spend to get Flight First[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Virgin (Citi Prestige)[/TD]
[TD] $ 1.333[/TD]
[TD] 62,500[/TD]
[TD] 125,000[/TD]
[TD] 187,500[/TD]
[TD] $ 46,887[/TD]
[TD] $ 93,773[/TD]
[TD] $ 140,660[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]AA (Through Diners Mastercard)[/TD]
[TD] $ 0.781[/TD]
[TD] 45,000[/TD]
[TD] 60,000[/TD]
[TD] 90,000[/TD]
[TD] $ 57,618[/TD]
[TD] $ 76,825[/TD]
[TD] $ 115,237[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[JohnK]

If only it was that simple.

Most Qantas airfares I purchase don't earn on AAdvantage.

And here's hoping Qantas and Virgin don't go the way of many airlines where cheapest airfares don't earn any miles/points.

 

[Alanslegal]

I don't care about Qantas or Virgin but I guess I am not their target market either. I fly for fun, I have no loyalty to anyone as such and choose flights based on various factors eg time/cost/destinations/mileage purchase promotions.

I try to accumulate SQ points through the usage of credit cards, for eg. certain American Express Cards can let you earn up to 3 SQ points per dollar. It can take a while to accumulate points through regular domestic spending but in the end I know it's worth it ... I will be flying SQ suites in a few months time so all that diligent credit card spending in the past will bear fruit.

To help that I also buy points during promotion (eg AA/US, UA, LM, AS) and that supports my desire to fly premium cabins as well.

I am happy for credit card companies to generate lots of points for consumers and am more than happy for frequent flyer programs to let consumers use those points on non-flight things. The more non-flight items are consumed the more worthwhile it gets for the remaining savvy flyers.

 

[Johnstone]

I don't care about Qantas or Virgin but I guess I am not their target market either. I fly for fun, I have no loyalty to anyone as such and choose flights based on various factors eg time/cost/destinations/mileage purchase promotions.

I try to accumulate SQ points through the usage of credit cards, for eg. certain American Express Cards can let you earn up to 3 SQ points per dollar. It can take a while to accumulate points through regular domestic spending but in the end I know it's worth it ... I will be flying SQ suites in a few months time so all that diligent credit card spending in the past will bear fruit.

To help that I also buy points during promotion (eg AA/US, UA, LM, AS) and that supports my desire to fly premium cabins as well.

I am happy for credit card companies to generate lots of points for consumers and am more than happy for frequent flyer programs to let consumers use those points on non-flight things. The more non-flight items are consumed the more worthwhile it gets for the remaining savvy flyers.

Alanslegal - I'm in the same boat as you in that I also only fly for fun with no loyalty to any airlines.

Just a quick question - why do you choose to fly with Singapore Airlines? I find that their Fuel Surcharges are way too high. A SYD-LAX flight on SQ Business has $670 in surcharges, as opposed to AA which charges $150. Is itmore because of personal preferance (ie better service and SQ Suites)?

 

[scwappy]

A SYD-LAX flight on SQ Business has $670 in surcharges, as opposed to AA which charges $150. Is itmore because of personal preferance (ie better service and SQ Suites)?

Maybe for availability reasons? Is it easy to find AA J award seats over the pacific in premium cabins?

 

[moa999]

Also many people use their points to upgrade on paid fares (mostly Aussie airlines) - can't use AA miles for that

 

[drron]

Simple reason-because most of us live in Australia so much easier to accumulate points.For example Woollies teaming up with QFF is a great head start.
More complicated reasons.Although my primary program is Aadvantage I was lucky enough to get to LTP thanks to advice from QF WP and then JonNYC on TB/FT.
But that doesn't let me upgrade on QF which often is the path of least resistance.Just not going to be bothered going to JNB to get a cheaper DONE fare as an example.
So need some QFF miles plus status which I get from being able to use mrsdrron's status on QF.

Second.Aadvantage isn't the program I have enjoyed for the last 12 years.I wouldn't make Life Time status if starting now.Also long haul premium cabin awards on AA have almost disappeared in the last 12-18 months.More people now chasing partner awards so I expect them to become more difficult in the future.

Third.For the above reason it is no longer good use of CC points transferring to AA.My DC and Amex points now go to SQ.With that and Avianca we have been able to get reasonable star awards.Looking at possibly picking a scary team for even greater choice.The reason for transferring points to SQ is to give us greater choice so being more able to fly when we want to.So not that concerned with higher surcharges.

So I still use QF as it just makes sense when AA is still my major program and you can earn QF miles with spending that wont ever earn you AA miles.

 

[yohy?!]

Difficult to represent but you should really factor in your calculation the ability to use diners vs visa in the first place and the availability of award seats on QF via AA (rare as hens teeth)

 

[Johnstone]

Simple reason-because most of us live in Australia so much easier to accumulate points.For example Woollies teaming up with QFF is a great head start.
More complicated reasons.Although my primary program is Aadvantage I was lucky enough to get to LTP thanks to advice from QF WP and then JonNYC on TB/FT.
But that doesn't let me upgrade on QF which often is the path of least resistance.Just not going to be bothered going to JNB to get a cheaper DONE fare as an example.
So need some QFF miles plus status which I get from being able to use mrsdrron's status on QF.

Second.Aadvantage isn't the program I have enjoyed for the last 12 years.I wouldn't make Life Time status if starting now.Also long haul premium cabin awards on AA have almost disappeared in the last 12-18 months.More people now chasing partner awards so I expect them to become more difficult in the future.

Third.For the above reason it is no longer good use of CC points transferring to AA.My DC and Amex points now go to SQ.With that and Avianca we have been able to get reasonable star awards.Looking at possibly picking a scary team for even greater choice.The reason for transferring points to SQ is to give us greater choice so being more able to fly when we want to.So not that concerned with higher surcharges.

So I still use QF as it just makes sense when AA is still my major program and you can earn QF miles with spending that wont ever earn you AA miles.

Thanks for the insight drron - that was very helpful and reaffirms my position to stick with AA for now. I don't have Status as as I don't fly often so I have no chance of getting upgraded. Also, I don't pay for my flights, so I can't earn any points on flights. I wish I could afford the luxury of not needing to worry about SQ surcharges - one day perhaps!

Thanks again for your comments

Difficult to represent but you should really factor in your calculation the ability to use diners vs visa in the first place and the availability of award seats on QF via AA (rare as hens teeth)

Yes, definitely agree that availability of QF flights via AA are rare - pretty much have to book almost a year in advance. For the Diners card, they have a supplementary MasterCard which I used in my calculations. I've personally found it extremely rare for Diners to be accepted anywhere in Australia

 

[medhead]

If someone was going to give me 1 million points/miles I won't care which airline.

 

[smit0847]

If someone was going to give me 1 million points/miles I won't care which airline.

I would. AA miles are at least twice as valuable as QF points

 

[medhead]

I would. AA miles are at least twice as valuable as QF points

So you'd say no thanks if someone offered you 1 million QFF points?

 

[Alanslegal]

Alanslegal - I'm in the same boat as you in that I also only fly for fun with no loyalty to any airlines.

Just a quick question - why do you choose to fly with Singapore Airlines? I find that their Fuel Surcharges are way too high. A SYD-LAX flight on SQ Business has $670 in surcharges, as opposed to AA which charges $150. Is itmore because of personal preferance (ie better service and SQ Suites)?

I think for me, it is about finding the balance between what points I can earn or buy compared to what I would like to redeem or what is available.

As I rarely earn any points from flying anymore, the only way to generate points is via regular shopping, (the occasional credit card sign up promotion) or through the purchasing of points directly from the airline.

Earning points via regular shopping, I find that I can earn 3 SQ points per $1.00 at supermarkets (and that's where I do my regular shopping and thus do not need to spend more chasing points, also add a few more supplementary cards and my whole extended family can generate points for me ) In terms of using those points, I find SQ offer a decent amount of availability to/from Europe and they fly direct to several cities I would easily/happily fly into - so it makes using them much more convenient. Yes, the taxes can be high but sometimes you just have to suck it up and pay for it. I mean, I would love to be paying AA type taxes all the time but if I can't get a seat - it doesn't matter how low the taxes are.

The last few years I have been buying points directly from airlines, there's several threads on the pro's and con's of each program with respect to buying and redeeming points - that has been very useful too. Buying points has also allowed me to save up my SQ and QF points, and now I have finally redeemed all my SQ and QF points for a RTW trip in F for me and the +1

 

[samh004]

Is my logic correct, or am I totally on the wrong track?

You're on the right track if you have a points-rich uncle... but in terms of earning, many programs require some usage of their own services, and if you're mainly or solely a domestic flyer, there's not a lot that can be done to rectify this. Sure, you may earn the miles all the same, but you wont earn the status, and miles without status does seem to be a bad proposition... they go together quite nicely.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Points are all about how you would use them. Personally I'd love a million Korean air miles as they have wide open first class availability almost year round and no problems redeeming them. But I'm in Asia and that works for me.

A million air points (nz) and we are talking!

 

[serfty]

...

A million air points (nz) and we are talking!

Hah! I value an Air Point (dollar) at roughly 100 QFF points (so does Amex) or 50 Velocity points.

So that may equate to 100,000,000 Qantas Frequent Flyer points.

FWIW, One million Air Points can be used to directly purchase $1,000,000 in fares (not taxes levies or charges - you still have to pay those in cold hard cash) while One million Qantas Frequent Flyer points can be used to directly purchase ~$7,800 in fares (including taxes levies or charges).

 

[dmitri]

Hah! I value an Air Point (dollar) at roughly 100 QFF points (so does Amex) or 50 Velocity points.

So that may equate to 100,000,000 Qantas Frequent Flyer points.

FWIW, One million Air Points can be used to directly purchase $1,000,000 in fares (not taxes levies or charges - you still have to pay those in cold hard cash) while One million Qantas Frequent Flyer points can be used to directly purchase ~$7,800 in fares (including taxes levies or charges).

That is extremely depressing serfty